Toppers Unite

[batankyu]

Hello, I purchased a vintage gibus (or chapeau claque) in mint conditionat the garage sale of the Carrot Festival in Créances on Sat 10 Aug 2024 for 60 euros. The only inscription inside is a logo with text "MODE DE PARIS". It came with a plain carboard hat box with the inscription of the hat shop "GAUQUELIN" in Coutances.

I had doubts about the box being the orignal box matching the hat as the hat does not mentions the shop and the hat box does not mention the maker, but I found online a black silk top hat "MODE DE PARIS" that was sold with the same cardboard box, so it might be the original box after all.

Top view.

Front View.

Rear view.

Left side view.

Right side view.

Bottom view.

Bottom view, logo with inscription "MODE DE PARIS".

Bottom rear view with bow knot.

Bottom front view.

Top view, collapsed.

Front view, collapsed.

Rear view, collapsed.

Left side view, collapsed.

Right side view, collapsed.

Bottom view, collapsed.

On new owner.

Plain cardboard box follows in next post...

 

[batankyu]

I'm posting the plain cardboard hat box of my gibus "MODE DE PARIS" in a separate post, due to the limit of 20 pictures per post.

I found online the pictures a black silk top hat "MODE DE PARIS" sold with a similar box at the link below
https://auctionet.com/en/2816106-top-hat-mode-de-paris-1900s
so I assume the box is the original one.

New owner with hat and box (strings hidden by the lid here) .

Hat box, top view with lid.

Hat box, side view with tag of the hat shop "GRANDE CHAPELLERIE GAUQUELIN", "24, rue Tancrède COUTANCES".

Hat box, side view with the seam of cardboard.

Hat box, front or rear view (?).

Hat box, rear or front view (?).

Hat box, bottom view, with inscription "2".
No clue what this number means.

Hat box, top view without lid.
I assume the extra string inside are there to secure the hat if it is in collapsed state.

Hat box lid, top view.

Hat box lid, bottom view.

 

[batankyu]

On a side note, I got this very damaged "Henry Heath" gibus for free the same day I purchased the brown plush top hat at the garage sale in Gavray, Normandie, France on Thu 8 Aug 2024 as the seller wanted to throw it to thrash in collapsed state. It's only when I got back home that I discovered the mechanism still worked and saw the hat in its non-collapsed state. It's not wearable except for comedy effect, but I'm still curious for a date range. It also motivated me to purchase the "Mode de Paris" gibus in much better condition the next week.

Top view.

Front view.

Left side view.

Rear view.

Right side view.

Bottom view.

Inner lining, with inscription "HENRY HEATH LIMITED", "105 TO 109, OXFORD ST LONDON, W.", "ESTABLISHED IN THE REIGN OF KING GEORGE IV 1822", "BY SPECIAL APPOINTMENT TO HIS MAJESTY THE KING".

On new owner.

On new owner, backward for comedy effect, with most damages visible.

 

[Steve1857]

A nice find especially with the box.

Congrats.

 

[Steve1857]

On a side note, I got this very damaged "Henry Heath" gibus for free the same day I purchased the brown plush top hat at the garage sale in Gavray, Normandie, France on Thu 8 Aug 2024 as the seller wanted to throw it to thrash in collapsed state. It's only when I got back home that I discovered the mechanism still worked and saw the hat in its non-collapsed state. It's not wearable except for comedy effect, but I'm still curious for a date range. It also motivated me to purchase the "Mode de Paris" gibus in much better condition the next week.

Inner lining, with inscription "HENRY HEATH LIMITED", "105 TO 109, OXFORD ST LONDON, W.", "ESTABLISHED IN THE REIGN OF KING GEORGE IV 1822", "BY SPECIAL APPOINTMENT TO HIS MAJESTY THE KING".

Well done for saving this Henry Heath Gibus from its trash can fate.

Despite its distressed look, it was well worth rescuing.

 

[steur]

On a side note, I got this very damaged "Henry Heath" gibus for free the same day I purchased the brown plush top hat at the garage sale in Gavray, Normandie, France on Thu 8 Aug 2024 as the seller wanted to throw it to thrash in collapsed state. It's only when I got back home that I discovered the mechanism still worked and saw the hat in its non-collapsed state. It's not wearable except for comedy effect, but I'm still curious for a date range. It also motivated me to purchase the "Mode de Paris" gibus in much better condition the next week.

Top view.

Front view.

Left side view.

Rear view.

Right side view.

Bottom view.

Inner lining, with inscription "HENRY HEATH LIMITED", "105 TO 109, OXFORD ST LONDON, W.", "ESTABLISHED IN THE REIGN OF KING GEORGE IV 1822", "BY SPECIAL APPOINTMENT TO HIS MAJESTY THE KING".

On new owner.

On new owner, backward for comedy effect, with most damages visible.

A very cool find and I think it's not beyond redemption. Someone skilled enough could probably get that grosgrain silk attached again to the top.

 

[steur]

Prima Qualität tophat in a size 56 with the brim at 5cm and the crown at a low 12,5cm. Weighs 201 grams. Some wear on the underside of the brim which was done with grosgrain and not silk pluche and also some wear alon the rim on the top of the crown. I got this along with the Battersby bowler at a low price and it didn't fit me, even though it is my size.
So I decided to bake it! Steve @Steve1857 has had some hands on experience with this and it hasn't scarred him for life, so I decided this was the candidate. Pre-heated the oven at 80 degrees Celsius and then placed the hat inside on a cloth towel. Baked it for another 6 minutes at the same tempereature. When I took it out it was perfectly moldable for about a minute or so. Placed it on my head and shaped it (take care with controlling the brim). Worked like a charm and it now fits me like a custom.

 

[CraigEster]

Hello, I purchased a vintage brown top hat for 7 euros at a garage sale in Gavray, Normandie, France on Thu 8 Aug 2024. No inner lining, no sweatband, so origin is unknown, plus the inside had newspaper sheets glued to it for an unknown reason. I had to scrub them away. I also presume the inner mesh glued inside comes from a restoration. It comes with its hatbox in poor shape now, no inscription, lid is missing. Any idea for a date range, country, maker ?

Top view:

Front view:

Left side view:

Rear view:

Right side view:

Bottom view after purchase: no inner lining, no sweat band, with newspaper pages glued for unknown reason:

Bottom view, after most of glued newspaper pages got scrubbed away, showing inscription "4 1/2 U" and "ML":

Bottom views of hat and its damaged box whose lid is also missing:

Top hat on new owner:

I have a collection of photos of dated hats from museums, archives, etc. and some experience.

First, the newspaper may have been a part of the hat, a sort of under-liner. The original liner was probably a slip-in type held in by the sweatband and both are lost. If the newspaper was newer and you could find a date on it then disregard this statement. It is always best to document EVERYTHING before any work is done on an antique piece. A few photos on a modern phone will do.

This hat matches this hat quite well, it is from 1851. Here is another hat from 1851.

Top hats started to be refined a little more in the 1850s, with the brims becoming more curled at the sides (the d'Orsay curl was being developed) and the crown shape was becoming more flared. Also, the plush was in the process of improvement.

The brown color of your hat is from exposure to light most likely, which was an issue with early hats. By the 1860s the plush makers had perfected their dyes and this became less of an issue.

Technological improvements spread more slowly in the 19th century and these improvements specifically were trade secrets held by, at most, two companies at the time this hat was made.

I have seen this brown color on earlier plush hats from c. 1830-1840, but the ones from the 1850s tend to be a little darker. This probably dates your hat to some time in the later part of the 1840s.

Hats from this time are very rare and I do wish you have photos of the newspaper before scraping it out. I suggest you donate this hat to a museum or look into proper methods of storage. The hat is quite rare and I would consider it extremely valuable for its age. Further alteration, even the removal of later repairs, would devalue the hat further. It is also important to note that hats in this time were in flux regarding their construction. Hatters hadn't yet figured out how to make gossamer, which is what we see in later top hats. Do not clean this hat in the usual manner, as a hat of this age is made of unknown materials - shellac wasn't yet universally used either. The hat is best kept in its case for now, out of light and away from any pets, humidity or other moisture, exhaust or industrial fumes, cooking residues, or any other contaminates noticeable to the senses.

The hat case appears to be original as well, although I do not know how far back leather-on-fiberboard construction goes. This technique was quite common in the later 19th century but I do not know when it started. The height of the case suggests that, at latest, it was made c. early 1870s for a late stovepipe hat. I believe the case may be original to the hat, although this is before the era of matching kit from the same maker - a hatter would sell hats and pair them with a case from a case and luggage maker.

 

[batankyu]

First, the newspaper may have been a part of the hat, a sort of under-liner. The original liner was probably a slip-in type held in by the sweatband and both are lost. If the newspaper was newer and you could find a date on it then disregard this statement. It is always best to document EVERYTHING before any work is done on an antique piece. A few photos on a modern phone will do.

Hi CraigEster, and thanks for your extensive reply.

Concerning the newspaper, it was definitely not part of the hat, I would have left it untouched if it had looked remotely vintage, but it was late 20th century, at least post-1970, because in color and showing french phone numbers with 6+ digits in the ads if i remember well.

I think someone just used crumbled newspaper pages to fill the hat before forgetting it in some attic where it took the rain, gluing part of them to the lattice, and then the seller or anyone before him removed most of the newspaper by tearing it and leaving the glued parts. The removal of the glued newspaper with a wet sponge is the only aggressive thing I've done to the hat.

For the hat case, I also think it is the one made for this hat, as it really closely fits the hat and follows the curvature of the brim.

 

[Steve1857]

Prima Qualität tophat in a size 56 with the brim at 5cm and the crown at a low 12,5cm. Weighs 201 grams. Some wear on the underside of the brim which was done with grosgrain and not silk pluche and also some wear alon the rim on the top of the crown. I got this along with the Battersby bowler at a low price and it didn't fit me, even though it is my size.
So I decided to bake it! Steve @Steve1857 has had some hands on experience with this and it hasn't scarred him for life, so I decided this was the candidate. Pre-heated the oven at 80 degrees Celsius and then placed the hat inside on a cloth towel. Baked it for another 6 minutes at the same tempereature. When I took it out it was perfectly moldable for about a minute or so. Placed it on my head and shaped it (take care with controlling the brim). Worked like a charm and it now fits me like a custom.

A nice find for a hat bake, Stefan. I'm glad to hear it worked for you.

 

[steur]

A nice find for a hat bake, Stefan. I'm glad to hear it worked for you.

Thanks, Steve. Your pioneering work gave me enough confidence to give it a try. Now I'm thinking if I have other stiff felt hats I need to try this procedure on.

 

[Steve1857]

Thanks, Steve. Your pioneering work gave me enough confidence to give it a try. Now I'm thinking if I have other stiff felt hats I need to try this procedure on.

You're welcome, my friend.

As you know, it works on Bowlers too, so bake away

 

[TimmyV]

I recently acquired this Stetson Top Hat said to be from the 30's. I have lots of hats but this is my one & only top hat . This one appears to be in excellent condition and I feel lucky to add it to my collection.

 

[Rmccamey]

Very nice.

I recently acquired this Stetson Top Hat said to be from the 30's. I have lots of hats but this is my one & only top hat . This one appears to be in excellent condition and I feel lucky to add it to my collection.

View attachment 642373 View attachment 642374 View attachment 642375 View attachment 642376 View attachment 642378

 

[batankyu]

I recently acquired this Stetson Top Hat said to be from the 30's. I have lots of hats but this is my one & only top hat . This one appears to be in excellent condition and I feel lucky to add it to my collection.

View attachment 642373 View attachment 642374 View attachment 642375 View attachment 642376 View attachment 642378

Hello, very nice hat. What is written on the leather sweatband?

 

[TimmyV]

Very nice.

Hello, very nice hat. What is written on the leather sweatband?

Thanks guys. The sweatband has this stamped on it

 

[batankyu]

Thanks guys. The sweatband has this stamped on it View attachment 642416

A search on "Mc Cue Bros & Drummonds" returns that they had retail hat shops at 3 addresses in New York that they displayed inside their hats: 1294 Broadway, 52 & 54 New Street, and 156 Broadway.

https://www.rrauction.com/auctions/lot-detail/340836205487044-mgm-founder-marcus-loew-srs-top-hat/

A court case vs Commissioner of Internal Revenue about their taxes due on 1294 Broadway shows the retail hat shop operated at this address from 1928 to June 1946, which is compatible with your 1930s date range for the hat.

https://casetext.com/case/mccue-bros-drummond-inc-v-commr-of-internal-revenue

 

[TimmyV]

A search on "Mc Cue Bros & Drummonds" returns that they had retail hat shops at 3 addresses in New York that they displayed inside their hats: 1294 Broadway, 52 & 54 New Street, and 156 Broadway.

https://www.rrauction.com/auctions/lot-detail/340836205487044-mgm-founder-marcus-loew-srs-top-hat/

A court case vs Commissioner of Internal Revenue about their taxes due on 1294 Broadway shows the retail hat shop operated at this address from 1928 to June 1946, which is compatible with your 1930s date range for the hat.

https://casetext.com/case/mccue-bros-drummond-inc-v-commr-of-internal-revenue

Thanks for the information !

 

[CraigEster]

Thanks guys. The sweatband has this stamped on it View attachment 642416

Would you be able to send more photos of this hat's sweatband, both at the back seam and the stitching of the hat when the band is flipped out? This is an interesting sweatband to see in a topper. Usually they were hand-whipped in but this looks reeded.

 

[TimmyV]

Here are a few pictures of the sweatband and the back seam. You are correct that this one is reeded. Don't feel like trying to turn the sweatband inside out as they can be brittle as you well know. Hope these pix help.