To tailor or not to tailor? When cost becomes the question

[Guttersnipe]

Hey fellas, so here's the situation. Last year I bought what is, for me, the ideal vintage tuxedo. It's in dead mint condition. It's a single breasted, peaked lapel, three-piece, bespoke item, from Germany, marked 1932.

There are tons of intricate details like, Silk lapels, surgeon's cuffs, Super high waist (the highest I've ever seen, in fact), really unique stripe on the pants seams, EVERYTHING is lined in silk - basically the works.

But here's the problem. When I bought it, it was a little big. In the last year year, however, I've lost about 2" in the chest and waist - so now it's huge! In order to get a proper fit it needs what amounts to a complete re-tailoring job (side seams, shoulder blades, some re-cutting on the vest, pants seat, etc.).

All told my tailor says it'll run about $350.

So my question is, should I or shouldn't I? For the vintage experts, if I wanted to get something in my size, what would a comparable tuxedo cost?

 

[mike]

In my opinion, if you need to open up the back to cut it down across the shoulder blade area, it's 99% never going to sit right. It sounds like an exceptional suit. I would put it away for when you gain a few more pounds or sell it to someone who it will fit.

 

[Geesie]

Hit the gym and get the chest to fit again.

 

[Guttersnipe]

In my opinion, if you need to open up the back to cut it down across the shoulder blade area, it's 99% never going to sit right. It sounds like an exceptional suit. I would put it away for when you gain a few more pounds or sell it to someone who it will fit.

Actually, he said he didn't want open up the back because for that exact reason. He thinks he can do it by taking it in from the side seams and loosing inches where the arms meet the body, if that makes sense. I'm not sure if that makes a difference, though.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

There are tons of intricate details like, Silk lapels, surgeon's cuffs, Super high waist (the highest I've ever seen, in fact), really unique stripe on the pants seams, EVERYTHING is lined in silk - basically the works.

Typical of German tailoring in that era! :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

.

 

[filfoster]

Apostacy

I am sorry to share this, in a way, because it's probably not what you would prefer. I am military uniform collector, in the main. That shapes my reply. I see too much alteration.
It's your ensemble: do what you like. But, this tuxedo is a time traveler, a survivor. Don't perform radical surgery on it. If you love it, keep it as it is and have it copied. You'll have a valuable original, re-salable, if you choose, and a perfect copy to wear. There are many tailor/vendors who could do a creditable job. Is it worth the price?

 

[thunderw21]

I am sorry to share this, in a way, because it's probably not what you would prefer. I am military uniform collector, in the main. That shapes my reply. I see too much alteration.
It's your ensemble: do what you like. But, this tuxedo is a time traveler, a survivor. Don't perform radical surgery on it. If you love it, keep it as it is and have it copied. You'll have a valuable original, re-salable, if you choose, and a perfect copy to wear. There are many tailor/vendors who could do a creditable job. Is it worth the price?

I agree completely with this view. Sometimes weren't not meant to wear some things. Keep and savor it for when you gain some pounds or sell it to someone who can appreciate it now.

 

[Guttersnipe]

So do you guys believe in never altering vintage in any way?

I myself actually have a really mercenary outlook when it comes to altering vintage for fit. I guess I'm the kind of collector who likes to play with my toys rather than just look at them.

I'm not sure having a copy made is a feasible solution; I have a feeling any suiting wool I found that matched the quality of what the original is made from would run $100+/yard. Add in the silks and tailoring and your talking over $2K easy...

...the idea of "banking" the tux for potential weight gain with age is interesting. Do other folks on the lounge do this?

I am sorry to share this, in a way, because it's probably not what you would prefer. I am military uniform collector, in the main. That shapes my reply. I see too much alteration.
It's your ensemble: do what you like. But, this tuxedo is a time traveler, a survivor. Don't perform radical surgery on it. If you love it, keep it as it is and have it copied. You'll have a valuable original, re-salable, if you choose, and a perfect copy to wear. There are many tailor/vendors who could do a creditable job. Is it worth the price?

and:

I agree completely with this view. Sometimes weren't not meant to wear some things. Keep and savor it for when you gain some pounds or sell it to someone who can appreciate it now.

 

[filfoster]

Joan Rivers

lengthening a sleeve or a hem is certainly something we have all done. Making over a well made, significant garment is something else. The past undone can't always be done again. Copies are a sensible alternative.

So do you guys believe in never altering vintage in any way?

I myself actually have a really mercenary outlook when it comes to altering vintage for fit. I guess I'm the kind of collector who likes to play with my toys rather than just look at them.

I'm not sure having a copy made is a feasible solution; I have a feeling any suiting wool I found that matched the quality of what the original is made from would run $100+/yard. Add in the silks and tailoring and your talking over $2K easy...

...the idea of "banking" the tux for potential weight gain with age is interesting. Do other folks on the lounge do this?



and:

 

[mike]

So do you guys believe in never altering vintage in any way?

I myself actually have a really mercenary outlook when it comes to altering vintage for fit. I guess I'm the kind of collector who likes to play with my toys rather than just look at them.

I'm very hesitant to go out of my way to possibly ruin a one of a kind work of art. That being said, my concern is in the tailoring process. Sometimes a tailor's work can't be undone. Last winter I took a 1926 suit (which I posted pictures the other day) to my (now) ex-tailors to get dry cleaned & pressed. English was not their first language and instead of doing what I asked, they removed the cuffs and took out most of the available material within the inseam while they were at it....?! UG!!! What can be done? Nothing. Do they care? No, not really. My jaw still clenches whenever I have to pass by that place.

I'm going through a similar situation right now with thee coolest suit I've ever been so lucky as to own. A 1931-dated SB PL, 3 piece w/DB vest! It's at a much more reliable tailor at the moment. I'm having the sleeves let down. My problem is that it turns out the suit must have been completely custom at the time, it even has surgeon cuffs. So even though there is enough material inside the cuff, there isn't as much workable material to let the sleeves down as I expected. My tailor is an old Italian guy who really appreciates and marvels at the stuff I've been bringing him. He suggested taking a small square piece of matching fabric from an area inside the waist or inseam of the pants and use it as a cover for the small square area of the wrist that the working cuffs wouldn't be able to fill. I said no because this might look too glaring, it's too wonderful of a suit to get wildly creative with alterations. He said he will open the lining in the shoulder area to see if there is room to let the sleeve down from there. No news yet though. If not, will this look ok about an inch shorter than I originally expected....? Time will tell, soon! Gulp!

Once it's completed, I will live it up all over town in that suit. I will not keep it at home on display with just me and the dog to drool over it. So how's that for an unbalanced way of thinking? lol

But back to you: I'd say anything torso-related that needs work done is really raising the stakes of nailing it just right. It's all a balancing act. You take in the waist/side area and the armholes might hang awkwardly or the back may bubble.

1932 Germany. What a time capsule of an article of clothing. This could have been someone's who attended the film premiere of Fritz Lang's Der Testament of Dr Mabuse. Or looked out his window and watch his world changing before his very eyes.

 

[Tomasso]

All told my tailor says it'll run about $350....... He thinks he can do it.....

shakeshead

 

[Guttersnipe]

The tux actually has a reliable provenance that I was told when I bought it out of the estate.

It belonged to a German-Jewish doctor - very apropos for a garment with surgeon's cuffs - who came to the US about 1933 during the brain-drain of German inteligencia that followed the Nazi seizure of power. He practiced medicine, as a surgeon, at the same hospital where my grandfather did his residency within the same time period.

1932 Germany. What a time capsule of an article of clothing. This could have been someone's who attended the film premiere of Fritz Lang's Der Testament of Dr Mabuse. Or looked out his window and watch his world changing before his very eyes.

 

[Guttersnipe]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention...

...my tailor is probably the most skilled guy in SF. He's the guy all the vintage "old hands" here go to. He was recommended to me by several folks.

 

[filfoster]

Alteration

This is an interesting thread. It examines an important issue: Are there any sensible limits on altering a vintage garment? I will premise this contribution with the acknowledgement that once you've paid for your garment, it's yours to do what you like with it.
I have a personal rule to honor what I will call the garment's 'integrity'. By that, I mean there are things you can do to the garment that won't change its fundamental structure. lengthening or shortening of a sleeve seems Ok; likewise a hem.
The easy to remember guide I follow is this: Don't do anything to the garment that can't be undone to restore it to its original state.Except of course, leisure suits, which are evil and should be mutilated beyond salvation.
I am also OK with collectors who 'bank' garments:meaning to hoard them for eventual resale. Likewise, it's wonderful to put something aside to give you motivation to grow or slim into. The motives don't have to be pure to accomplish a good deed of preserving vintage clothing, which if collectible, are usually significant items. Except for the aforementioned leisure suits.

 

[Orgetorix]

If we're talking about a suit that already fits reasonably well and we're just tweaking it to fit perfectly, I have no problems with it.

But if we're talking about taking a suit that just plain doesn't fit and doing major surgery to remake it in a smaller size, I think it's almost never a good idea. Doesn't matter if the suit is vintage or came from the factory yesterday. I rarely see suits that have been extensively altered that look good, and it's almost never cost-effective, either.

About 98% of the time, I think you're better off buying a modern suit that fits in the first place than trying to alter a vintage garment that is the wrong size. I don't care if you've come across a one-of-a-kind belted back, three-piece gem the likes of which you'll never see again. If it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit. Sell it to someone who won't need to Frankenstein it and keep looking for something your size.

 

[pdxvintagette]

I think the shift in focus on this thread has been rather interesting, if unhelpful. The OP asked for evaluation of whether the high cost of a quality alteration would be worth the final product. But somehow, it became about the ethics if the alteration. I find this a little odd, since some of the people speaking against alteration left positive comments on the "my favorite suit thread." Which suit was significantly, and irreversibly altered from it's original form.

Addressing the actually concern of the thread, it seems to me that if the tailor is confident in his abilities, and familiar with vintage, alteration is by far the most affordable route... The cost of a copy that matches the quality of the original would be prohibitive. And I assume the OP means to makes this he tux he wears for the next 20 years, at least.

 

[Tomasso]

if we're talking about taking a suit that just plain doesn't fit and doing major surgery to remake it in a smaller size, I think it's almost never a good idea.

Very true!

Doesn't matter if the suit is vintage or came from the factory yesterday.

I'll part with you here..........

 

[Dr Doran]

Guttersnipe's Quandary is Solved

Is it a 42L? If so, problem solved: I'll buy it from you.

(PS Guttersnipe, that brown Jamaican 1930s jacket you gave me is still rocking my world -- and the world of everyone who sees me in it, including the convicts I teach in San Quentin, one of whom said to me when I wore it "Man, you look so sharp you gonna cut yourself," and I still have that DB jacket that's too small for me if you want it.)

 

[Guttersnipe]

HAHAHA....

....No such luck Doran, it's roughly a 44R (even I wouldn't be able to bring myself to crop-down a "Long" from the 30's).

Next time you're coming to 'frisco for CoS, give me a holler, we can get Korean food and wax poetic on history (over 2 liters of Hite Beer).

I can't wait to check out that DB, by the way. The anticipation is palpable.

Is it a 42L? If so, problem solved: I'll buy it from you.

(PS Guttersnipe, that brown Jamaican 1930s jacket you gave me is still rocking my world -- and the world of everyone who sees me in it, including the convicts I teach in San Quentin, one of whom said to me when I wore it "Man, you look so sharp you gonna cut yourself," and I still have that DB jacket that's too small for me if you want it.)

 

[Dr Doran]

....No such luck Doran, it's roughly a 44R (even I wouldn't be able to bring myself to crop-down a "Long" from the 30's).

Next time you're coming to 'frisco for CoS, give me a holler, we can get Korean food and wax poetic on history (over 2 liters of Hite Beer).

I can't wait to check out that DB, by the way. The anticipation is palpable.

44 is great! Easy to let down the sleeve-cuffs and leg-cuffs to make it a 44L. My actual size varies between 42L and 43L/44L. Let's talk ...

Never heard of Hite Beer, but always love a drink ...