This generation of kids...

[Baron Kurtz]

^^^ almost certainly not. I think the shift to flexi-time, as they call it, in industries in which such shifts are do-able, is a huge step in the right direction. Most of this change was, of course, mooted to aid mothers with young children re-integrate into the working population. But as understanding of these issues has increased it's become clear that may other people can benefit and - most importantly - become more efficient and productive under such regimes. (The obvious correlate is paternity leave.) This has made business sit up and take notice, as it should. Like the disastrous consequences to the productivity of weavers in the early industrial revolution of banning singing (in a bald attempt to crush "spirit"), it is now recognised by progressive managers that, where possible, flexi-time results in a massive improvement in productivity. A happy worker is a better worker! The Tories like it, because it also instills some form of self-responsibility, Labour likes it, because it's helping people live their lives a bit more fairly, and the Lib Dems, well, they don't seem to have an opinion, unsurprisingly.

Working out of synch with ones body clock has also been linked to increased risk of various ailments, particularly in shift workers. This to the point of legislation in some Scandinavian countries.

bk

 

[PrairieSunrise]

Of course it can - but does it produce the optimum performance?

It could if we used sheer force of will.

 

[John in Covina]

Age has a difference too. Many people are night owls in their youth but slip over to the early to bed early to rise routine when they get older.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

The effects of ageing on the body clock are a field of intense research at the moment, in human volunteer cohorts and animal models. It seems to be the result of a gradual worsening of the connections between light-sensing systems and pineal melatonin release. The potential market for therapies arising are quite evident.

Mice and hamsters, for example, display robust nocturnal wheel running activity in their youth, controlled by the body clock responding to light/dark cycles. As they get older, the wheel running becomes progressively more sporadic and less confined to the hours of darkness.

bk

 

[Delthayre]

Kids these days ad infinitum

Intergenerational sniping and sneering always seems dubious to me. It often seems laden with confidently, severely made judgements that rather want for proportionally strong justification.

Perhaps humans are just psychologically rigged for it. Consider, for example, that older people enjoy reading things that denigrate those who are younger.

 

[Sincerely-Dee]

Intergenerational sniping and sneering always seems dubious to me. It often seems laden with confidently, severely made judgements that rather want for proportionally strong justification.

Perhaps humans are just psychologically rigged for it. Consider, for example, that older people enjoy reading things that denigrate those who are younger.

I have to say that I agree. Some of the posts on this thread seem to me, a teenager, rather unsettling. Many of the opinions expressed seem to conclude that young people are lazy and selfish. However, I do think that it's a natural process; older generations will always have negativity towards younger ones. I guess when I reach a more respectable age it will be the same...

 

[John in Covina]

I remember back at the cave my dad yelling "What being Neanderthal isn't good enough for you?!!!"

Later at Sparta we complained how the kids had no disipline.

Then again when we Pilgrims landed at Plymouth Rock the kids were running roughshod over the adults and the teens were getting away with murder.

Later in Salem those darn kids got into witchcraft and that devil music.

The more things change the more they stay the same.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I think the point is that the natural state of all kids is that they aren't born with self-discipline. That's been true ever since the first model came out -- it's not decade or era specific. Self discipline is something that has to be taught, and it's mostly the parents and the schools who have to teach it.

No kid at any age likes to be told to do things in a way they don't want to do it -- they never have, and they never will. But eventually, most of them realize that that's the way the world works, and they really don't have any choice in the matter. It just takes some kids longer to learn this than others. All of us who've commented here were kids once ourselves -- and a lot of us learned our lessons the hard way.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

No kid at any age likes to be told to do things in a way they don't want to do it...

To be honest, Lizzie, I don't think wnayone of any age like being told what to do. Nobody wants to pay taxes. No body wants to have to go do something to earn money. But we have to if we want to become a part of society. It is all part of growing up.

 

[Mojito]

I have to say that I agree. Some of the posts on this thread seem to me, a teenager, rather unsettling. Many of the opinions expressed seem to conclude that young people are lazy and selfish. However, I do think that it's a natural process; older generations will always have negativity towards younger ones. I guess when I reach a more respectable age it will be the same...

I could show you cases from the teens like the one in which a mother took her daughter to court to try and get her behaviour curbed, because she kept sneaking out at night thanks to the lure of "tango pirates" and absinthe.

Education is always going to be a contentious issue - ideally, we'd live in a world where it catered to the specific needs of each child, but such tailoring would be extraordinarily expensive (and would involve other people in the child's life, namely the parents, having to go to great lengths to adapt their working hours etc around them). At the other extreme, it is a complete disaster to expect to shoehorn everyone into the same regime. I remember how miserable I was with the predominant teaching methodology I was until I worked out that I was more visual than audio - it made a huge difference in my final year of high school to be able to politely ask teachers to explain things in a different way so I could process the information.

I suspect I would have benefited from an adjusted schedule - if it were possible. I went through my school years in a daze of exhausted misery. And not because I was up late watching TV (that certainly wouldn't have been tolerated), or because I was lazy (I graduated Dux of my high school). I survived because I had to - humans are remarkably resiliant creatures - but it was miserable.

I don't know where the solution lies, because - as I say - there's only so much tailoring of the schedule we can do. There has to be a certain degree of universal conformity, and with many schools and parents struggling financially, it's going to be a question of how far we have to go. But if small changes - like an adjustment to school timetables to be accommodating to teenage bio chemistry - can be effective, then why not at least try them out?

I'm all for the flexibility you describe in the workplace, Baron Kurtz. 9 - 5 suits me (well, more like 8.30ish to whenever I finish after 5.00pm - I'm a not rigid about it and am flexible within my nominal 9 - 5 hours), as much as it can be accommodated. We have a lot of people at the Museum who work hours that don't conform to that - often it's just a half-hour adjustment so a father can pick up kids from school or something along those lines.

One thing I would resist is the idea of going back to the rigid regimentation of earlier generations. Structure, yes, but not so rigid that children are shoe-horned into a strict pattern of learning (e.g. audio emphasis). I'm not entirely comfortable with a lot of the "man-it-up" ethos, either. My father was born in the 30s and was educated primarily in the 40s. He was a brilliant French student - top of the class. Following his final test, before sitting for the external exams, he waited while they held out the results. His name wasn't in the top five. Nor the top ten. He became alarmed, wondering where he fell in it all. Finally, at the very end, his paper was handed back to him: 0. But he could see the original score that had been crossed out: 100%. Held back for some cuts of the cane for his failure, he summoned the courage to ask *why*.

And was told it was because of his poor handwriting.

Mind you, his handwriting was so poor largely because he was naturally left handed - but this had been beaten out of him with a cane, as all students were supposed to be right handed.

The real reason, though, came out later. It was a plot concoted between my grandfather and the teacher - they were concerned he was finding it too easy and he might become complacent before the final external exams. So they decided to give him a 0% to toughen him up and make him try *really* hard.

The result was that my father gave up French entirely.

 

[Neophyte]

I believe I belong to the generation that is the subject of this thread lol. I'll agree with those that call us lazy and selfish, or at least lacking in character. I sure am...

 

[Bruce Wayne]

My sister is a 7th grade science teacher at a rural middle school. She has had that job for six or so years & she is already burned out. She is convinced that while some students are okay, each passing year the kids get worse & worse. Last year they had a project to do that involve writing letters to various caves around the world, & most of the kids did not know how to address an envelope, even when she drew an example up on the black board!

 

[Pompidou]

"The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for
authority, they show disrespect to their elders.... They no longer
rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents,
chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their
legs, and are tyrants over their teachers."

"The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have
no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all
restraint. They talk as if they alone knew everything and what passes
for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for girls, they are
forward, immodest and unwomanly in speech, behaviour and dress."

Those quotes are attributed to Plato and Socrates. The current generation is only a couple off from many of yours, but yours is countless generations from theirs. The relative difference in generational uselessness speaks for itself. Since every generation as a rule is worse than the preceding, at least in the eyes of the preceding, our generations aught to band together. If you believe what Plato and Socrates are saying, and you should, because you're saying it too, then you should agree that moral degenerates like ourselves should stick together. It's the only hope for the future of mankind. We've been in a perpetual downward spiral of morality and ethics ever since the dawn of humanity. One generation has to put a stop to this, clearly. It's a shame it wasn't yours. It's a shame it wasn't mine. It's not too late for it to be theirs.

 

[jamespowers]

I think the point is that the natural state of all kids is that they aren't born with self-discipline. That's been true ever since the first model came out -- it's not decade or era specific. Self discipline is something that has to be taught, and it's mostly the parents and the schools who have to teach it.

No kid at any age likes to be told to do things in a way they don't want to do it -- they never have, and they never will. But eventually, most of them realize that that's the way the world works, and they really don't have any choice in the matter. It just takes some kids longer to learn this than others. All of us who've commented here were kids once ourselves -- and a lot of us learned our lessons the hard way.

Exactly. :eusa_clap

 

[MikeBravo]

I believe I belong to the generation that is the subject of this thread lol. I'll agree with those that call us lazy and selfish, or at least lacking in character. I sure am...

Self awareness! The first step toward self improvement!


Good grief, I am 49 next week and feel lazy and selfish most of the time. But I get by

 

[MikeBravo]

I believe that children are our future

Unless we stop them now!

- Homer Simpson

 

[Roxy]

I believe that children are our future

Unless we stop them now!

- Homer Simpson

lol lol lol

 

[James71]

As has been correctly pointed out, every generation despises the "difference" of those that come after. Most often it is the change in behavioural expectations, morality and respect. (and their ridiculous fashions and music)

I would be letting the chain break on a long and illustrious piece of human culture if I didnt take up the mantle and resent the following generations, as is right and proper.

So damn those lazy, disrespectful youngsters and their loud pathetic "music".


Now where the hell did I leave my walking frame?
















What was I looking for again? [huh]

 

[reetpleat]

I think the point is that the natural state of all kids is that they aren't born with self-discipline. That's been true ever since the first model came out -- it's not decade or era specific. Self discipline is something that has to be taught, and it's mostly the parents and the schools who have to teach it.

No kid at any age likes to be told to do things in a way they don't want to do it -- they never have, and they never will. But eventually, most of them realize that that's the way the world works, and they really don't have any choice in the matter. It just takes some kids longer to learn this than others. All of us who've commented here were kids once ourselves -- and a lot of us learned our lessons the hard way.

I do agree that self discipline, delayed gratification, and just learning that we can't always have things exactly how we want them are good things for a kid to learn, but i think many older generations overdid it, to the point of crushing hopes dreams, creativity and joy. I think a lot of modern parents are raising much happier, well adjusted kids along with the self discipline etc.

I do not believe that it is important to teach kids to do everything any adult tells them all the time at risk of physical harm, and never to question authority. I think a healthy combination of individuality combined with an understanding of the benefits of self discipline is the right combination. of course, I do not have kids.

 

[reetpleat]

My sister is a 7th grade science teacher at a rural middle school. She has had that job for six or so years & she is already burned out. She is convinced that while some students are okay, each passing year the kids get worse & worse. Last year they had a project to do that involve writing letters to various caves around the world, & most of the kids did not know how to address an envelope, even when she drew an example up on the black board!

But did they know how tp properly address a cave?

But seriously, I don't think that is that big a deal. i mean, unless they do it, or have had a class in it, why would a kid know how to address an envelope. They will learn soon enough. but I will be they are quite good at setting up a yahoo e-mail account.

I mean, I don't know how to send a telegraph or send something via pony express.