This generation of kids...

[Puzzicato]

Mind you, his handwriting was so poor largely because he was naturally left handed - but this had been beaten out of him with a cane, as all students were supposed to be right handed.

That was something I had thought of reading this thread - an unarguably positive educational advancement! My husband should be left handed, but even in the 70s in South Africa that wasn't allowed, and he still struggles to write clearly.

 

[pretty faythe]

wow...really????
Not so down here, same starting times for all the kids..7 for high school, 8 for middle and 9 for primary...give or take 15 minutes. There is one school that has stagered starting times, I'msure there's more, but I only know of the one, and I believe thats because of the crowding issue. Have the time stagered and less kids to get knocked down by moronic drivers.

And we have a 3 day weekend for the holiday. After all is said and done though, with the teacher prep days or what ever they are called, they still have the same amount of time in school we did. It may seem like they have a lot of days off, but they get out later in the year than when I was in school.

I'm grateful my 11 year old is now in middle school, no more year round, although did finially did away with that this year too lol.

I was in shock this year. The school board said waking up so early was difficult for teenagers, so the start time for each day is now pushed back an hour. School doesn't start until nearly 9am now. I could deal with that if they stayed open an extra hour, but its only an extra 15 minutes. Where'd that 45 minutes span of supposed education go?

And waking up is difficult for teenagers? Seriously? Not with a well-placed boot.

 

[pretty faythe]

wow...really????
Not so down here, same starting times for all the kids..7 for high school, 8 for middle and 9 for primary...give or take 15 minutes. There is one school that has stagered starting times, I'msure there's more, but I only know of the one, and I believe thats because of the crowding issue. Have the time stagered and less kids to get knocked down by moronic drivers.

And we have a 3 day weekend for the holiday. After all is said and done though, with the teacher prep days or what ever they are called, they still have the same amount of time in school we did. It may seem like they have a lot of days off, but they get out later in the year than when I was in school.

I'm grateful my 11 year old is now in middle school, no more year round, although did finially did away with that this year too lol.

I was in shock this year. The school board said waking up so early was difficult for teenagers, so the start time for each day is now pushed back an hour. School doesn't start until nearly 9am now. I could deal with that if they stayed open an extra hour, but its only an extra 15 minutes. Where'd that 45 minutes span of supposed education go?

And waking up is difficult for teenagers? Seriously? Not with a well-placed boot.

 

[pretty faythe]

in many places school kids are not getting taught Reading, Writing and Arithmatic but value systems that are NOT what you want them to be learning.

When my middle schooler got her schedule I noticed that she had reading and english..I dont recall them being seperate subjects when I was in school and have been trying to rack my brain and recall if they were seperate subjects when my senior started middle school.

 

[pretty faythe]

Funny how the football team gets a new electronic scoreboard, uniforms, trips funded all over the country ... yet arts and music are cut, students have to share a computer (in computer class!), etc.

We're in different counties for our kids schooling, but AMEN!! The highschooler sees this on both sides...she plays school sports and has to suffer the cut backs in her main love, the arts. They decided to cut one of her choir classes this year, madigrals (jazz vocals), which totally pi$$ed her off. Its one of the main reasons we have done zone variences for her to go the school. The high school that she is zoned for had no choir program up until last year, and it is well below where she is at. Even for the sports programs, she sees the favoritism going to the football team...she's a tennis and soccer player.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I do agree that self discipline, delayed gratification, and just learning that we can't always have things exactly how we want them are good things for a kid to learn, but i think many older generations overdid it, to the point of crushing hopes dreams, creativity and joy. I think a lot of modern parents are raising much happier, well adjusted kids along with the self discipline etc.

I do not believe that it is important to teach kids to do everything any adult tells them all the time at risk of physical harm, and never to question authority. I think a healthy combination of individuality combined with an understanding of the benefits of self discipline is the right combination. of course, I do not have kids.

And here's where I think we've tipped the balance in the wrong direction over the last few decades: kids all too often don't learn how to accept that sometimes, they'll fail. Sometimes they *won't* be successful. Sometimes their dreams *won't* come true. You need to know how to cope when that happens, because the older you get, the more often you'll be facing it.

I have a niece, a very bright young woman, who had her hand held all thru high school by teachers and counselors who turned her into their own little pet project. The result of this was, by the time she'd graduated, she'd become insufferable, with no respect or regard for anyone but herself. And then she went on to college and for the first time in her educational life, she ran into serious criticism. All thru high school she'd been told how smart she was, how wonderfully she wrote, how brilliantly creative she was in every possible way. But in college, she had one of her first assignments handed back with some very sharp criticism and she couldn't handle it. She called home in tears, threatening to quit, and finally did end up dropping the class.

I suppose someone will figure there's nothing inappropriate about that, or that the teacher was being too rough on the poor culture-shocked underprivileged quota-kid from the small town, but I dunno, I just can't conceive of any situation where that kind of reaction is appropriate.

 

[CopperNY]

"darn kids" has been the cry since there have been teenagers:

"Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers." - Socrates (d. 399 BC)

 

[OneAndOnly]

I'm amazed at how early American schools start each morning, never once for the 20-odd years I was schooled did I have to be in any earlier than 9am. Primary school ran 9am-2.50pm, secondary school was 9am-4pm, except on Wednesdays when we finished at 12.30pm, and then in Uni the hours varied up to 6pm but never any earlier than 9am, except for one semester when I did an extra-curricular class in Latin and had to be in for 8am.

 

[John in Covina]

And here's where I think we've tipped the balance in the wrong direction over the last few decades: kids all too often don't learn how to accept that sometimes, they'll fail. Sometimes they *won't* be successful. Sometimes their dreams *won't* come true. You need to know how to cope when that happens, because the older you get, the more often you'll be facing it.

I have a niece, a very bright young woman, who had her hand held all thru high school by teachers and counselors who turned her into their own little pet project. The result of this was, by the time she'd graduated, she'd become insufferable, with no respect or regard for anyone but herself. And then she went on to college and for the first time in her educational life, she ran into serious criticism. All thru high school she'd been told how smart she was, how wonderfully she wrote, how brilliantly creative she was in every possible way. But in college, she had one of her first assignments handed back with some very sharp criticism and she couldn't handle it. She called home in tears, threatening to quit, and finally did end up dropping the class.

I suppose someone will figure there's nothing inappropriate about that, or that the teacher was being too rough on the poor culture-shocked underprivileged quota-kid from the small town, but I dunno, I just can't conceive of any situation where that kind of reaction is appropriate.

This is the dreaded self esteem syndrome. You can't feel good about yourself if you have low self esteem, so they artifically create self esteem without merit. The baseball games where they don't keep score so there are no losers is an example. Learning to fail and pick your self up afterwards to try again is the lesson to be learned not false winning because there is no losing. Respect and self esteem are best if earned.

 

[scottyrocks]

There are arguments for both sides of this.

If we artificially build self-esteem, we have generally happier kids. If we let them succeed and fail, like normal people do every day, we’ll have some kids who will cope and learn from it, and some who won’t (as well). Again, you cant generalize about any one method, and cant force specificity onto any group of people such as kids/teenagers.

The point is, everyone is different, and this is why we have people to fill in all the various positions that exist in society. Not everyone is gonna be a Donald Trump (perhaps not the best example), and not everyone is gonna be a, lets say, a sanitation engineer (my apologies – not meant as offensive to SE’s).

The truth is, as you look up the ladder of success, there is way less room the higher you go. Who gets there and how is dependent on a lot of factors. Is it possible that child A, if handled differently when they lost that little league world series game would’ve become the next Derek Jeter when he grew up instead of quitting baseball at the tender age of 9, while child B, treated the same way, made the major leagues? There’s really no way to know. Everyone is different, and the game unfolds as it does, for each person as it happens.

 

[Yeps]

Ok we'll cut some slack for you and your friends it's the other 90% we are complaining about.

I agree with Miss Annie. If I were to complain, it would be about "This generation of school boards." Seriously though, the millenial generation isn't all that bad. I mean, I did grow up around my share of spoiled rich kids, and wannabe gangsters (strange area of the country, we had both, sometimes the same people), but guess what! Now that they are growing up, most of them are becoming honest, hardworking people.

Two of my good friends from high-school, who didn't do well in college, now are running their own landscaping business and doing very well (actually, my high-school class generally didn't do that well in college). You would be surprised how many of the slackers, stoners, and other banes of society grow up to be good solid citizens (and marines. I have a couple friends that joined the marines, and are now infinitely better for it.)

 

[Miss Neecerie]

The point is, everyone is different, and this is why we have people to fill in all the various positions that exist in society. Not everyone is gonna be a Donald Trump (perhaps not the best example), and not everyone is gonna be a, lets say, a sanitation engineer (my apologies – not meant as offensive to SE’s).

See and here is when I must say...part of the self esteem 'everyone needs to go to college' you can be successful ' stuff that is pushed to all kids these days...

one of the side effects of that is that everyone is told they too CAN be Donald Trump....and should go to college...since thats the stepping stone...

Rather then acknowledging that perhaps they are better suited to something else, and perhaps attending a trade school and being the worlds best electrician or plumber...they try college and fail at it, because we have set up a system (at least here in the states) where the other options are not really promoted anymore.

This has lead to a real gap for people between the unskilled labor and the college educated groups....and people doing those careers as a 'well I failed out of...' option...instead of a valued choice and member of society.

 

[LaMedicine]

Ok we'll cut some slack for you and your friends it's the other 90% we are complaining about.

I think 90% are decent, actually, when you get a good chance to talk with them. It's the remaning 10% who are problematic...and bad news travel fast and far, good news travels slow and only to the next door. And that's most likely how it's been always.[huh]

When I went to school in the US in the early '60s (grades 7-10), I remember leaving home at around 8:00AM which means home room started at 8:30 or so, in fact, all the primary and secondary schools started at that same time, and we got out at around 3:00PM. It's pretty much the same here. When did the US schools begin starting the school day so early?

As for not knowing how to address envelopes in 7th grade, our curriculm in the '60s had it so that we spent the weekly composition hour in English on how to write letters from private to business, throughout the whole school year in 8th grade, so, that might be the fault of the curriculum, rather than the students themselves. In this day and age where email has superceded snail mail, I wouldn't be surprised if school kids had only a vague idea of how to address an envelope, or maybe not know at all, until they are given a structured course on the how tos.

I agree with Lizzie though, that pampering students is actually more harmful than helpful, and won't help them establish true self esteem, which I believe comes hand in hand with good coping mechanisms. The grown ups need to know when to hold back, and when to give a gentle nudge, and never to lead them by a leash.

Reading through this thread, I have been thinking how much the change in lighting might have affected the human internal clock. I am old enough to remember how dark the nights and the lighting at home could be, and even the large cities turning down the lights late at night. These days, we get lights as bright as day all night through...no wonder many youngsters end up nocturnal creatures.

 

[Yeps]

My daughter told me while we were watching a movie the other day, "this is why we have self esteem issues, no one in high school is really that tall..."

I was "that tall" and that led to mocking too. There is not much you can do in high school to avoid it being hell.

 

[Harp]

... and then in Uni... never any earlier than 9am, except for one semester when I did an extra-curricular class in Latin and had to be in for 8am.

Surgere prima luce et carpe diem.

I once took an 8.30 am German class. Insane fool that I am. lol

 

[Puzzicato]

Last time my mother in law was over she was AMAZED and VERY LOUDLY VOCAL about how polite a couple of ghastly-looking teenagers were, in standing up for her on the train. It seems that even children with facial piercings and horrible hair can behave properly. Pity the old bat can be so embarrassing!

 

[pretty faythe]

Pssst...as the worlds 2nd best electrician I have to let you know that we go to school for 5 years and receive college credits, on the union end of it. Non union also has about the same amount of schooling, not sure about the college credit part of it though. We have trig, calculus, etc crammed down our throughts.
After the apprenticeship is completed, if desierd, we can go to community college and take basic courses and get an AA or take a few less classes and get a certificate of education. About 1/3 of the people who start the program don't finish because they think its easy. Just on the job training. When I started the apprenticeship there were 100 people total, 5 years later only 60 of us remained.

Rather then acknowledging that perhaps they are better suited to something else, and perhaps attending a trade school and being the worlds best electrician or plumber...they try college and fail at it, because we have set up a system (at least here in the states) where the other options are not really promoted anymore.

This has lead to a real gap for people between the unskilled labor and the college educated groups....and people doing those careers as a 'well I failed out of...' option...instead of a valued choice and member of society.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

I wish there were more teens in this country like Annie. I can't imagine kids in the US walking 3 miles to school -- or even one mile for that matter (I did it when I was in high school though!). When the schools (including high schools!) let out at 2 or 3 PM traffic around it is horrendously snarled up by parents waiting to pick up their kids.

It is also a fact that in many other countries young people are raised and educated to a much higher standard than in the United States. This is sadly borne out in our low standings in many areas of academic achievement such as math and science, for example, compared to the other industrialized nations of the world.

 

[Harp]

I didn't mean to sounds too arsy!

It just really irritates me that we are sometimes judged purely because we are teenagers. We are really not as terrible as we seem .

xxx

Age can and does envy youth, and in this wistful state may all too easily forget its own past to render unfair judgement.

But not always...

 

[Miss Neecerie]

Pssst...as the worlds 2nd best electrician I have to let you know that we go to school for 5 years and receive college credits, on the union end of it. Non union also has about the same amount of schooling, not sure about the college credit part of it though. We have trig, calculus, etc crammed down our throughts.
After the apprenticeship is completed, if desierd, we can go to community college and take basic courses and get an AA or take a few less classes and get a certificate of education. About 1/3 of the people who start the program don't finish because they think its easy. Just on the job training. When I started the apprenticeship there were 100 people total, 5 years later only 60 of us remained.

My point was not that it was easy to become a tradesperson. Nor that it did not require education.

Rather that it requires specific education and following that path is not something 'sold' to the vast majority of high schoolers by their guidance counsellor or parents.

These people in an attempt not to tell anyone that they should consider alternatives to a 4 year degree, sell the university will make you a 'success' plan to everyone, not just those who have the academic record for it.