This generation of kids...

[Feraud]

I think most realize the political aspect of such topics but try to abide by Lounge rules and stay clear of overt rants.
It is absolutely possible to discuss inherently political issues without it turning into a partisan flame war.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The first sixty pages or so of this thread are a good example of that. There's some very interesting reading there on all sides of the issue and nobody's getting political about it.

As for critiquing modern life, well, the Lounge is not just a fashion forum. It's a board with the primary mission of "Keeping The Culture Of The Golden Era," so there's bound to be some of us who are disillusioned or disaffected with the modern zeitgeist. Such topics go with the territory. However, there are far more topics on the board focused solely on style, clothing history, and other such things, than there are cultural or social criticism and people who don't like the other stuff can keep busy all day long with those.

 

[sheeplady]

Social yes. But ranting about society is always political too. The school system, the media...all is gone bad (seems to be the message of this threads)
The kids today are influenced and formed by the adults today. And if you live in the USA you mean the americans. So in fact you are attacking america yourself.
Unless your guns are more important than your kids I don't see your point.

No, if you read this thread there are plenty of instances of people speaking up for good kids they know. You realize that a portion of the people here (I'd estimate a third) here have kids themselves? I'm pretty sure that they aren't including their own kids in this.

Kids are raised in a slew of things. Schools have kids 6-8 hours a day. Peers have impact. They get shaped not only by parent's expectations but the expectations of others: employers, friends, teachers, etc. The idea that parents have the only and utmost control of their children is a fantasy held by a few people. Other people matter a lot.

The idea that people in the U.S. cannot comment or criticize things that happen in U.S. society is blatantly dumb. The only people who force the idea that there is no difference between an attack and criticism are pundits who want to quell dissent and prohibit free speech. Free speech being one of the most basic cornerstones of our society in the U.S. and something that those who founded our country were very passionate about not only preserving for citizens, but doing themselves.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

Sheeplady, I was not saying they should not comment or criticize at all. (This was just a rhetoric exaggeration. I was sure one would see that)
Quite on the contrary I would like a Fedora Lounge were critics are not being ridiculed like it happened in the last few days.
The "politics banned rule" would be perfectly understandable (all for the forum-peace) if it was binding for all members. But I feel it is pretty one sided at the moment.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Hot button issues. Just imagine if every time the word 'Cigar' was mentioned that some would go into a rant about those evils of smoking until even the actual specific topic of the thread was lost...and any other discussion overwhelmed with the 'much more important concerns' of those ranting and railing..even if it may cause chaos. Even if the thread is lost/hi-jacked...or other posting members plead for a return to civility. Would you suppose that 'that' may be what the FL is most always trying to avoid?

 

[ButteMT61]

What I like about this place is 92-93.34% of the time, it's grown up, civil and fun. Nannies drive me insane.
Eco nannies.
Health nannies
Political nannies.
Any topic, as HD points out, can be a political one if someone(s) want to hijack it and take some pompous stand. Please don't. This place seems mostly void of children, and if there are some, they blend in well.
I've got three kids myself. 2/3 are awesome. 1/3 is a PITA and challenging at every step. I like some of their friends, scant stand others. Discussing them all here in the generic sense is enlightening. I've learned much. But honest to gawd, people knock off the "I'm being censored" whining and just accept the rules or bail.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Here's something worth mentioning. We Bartenders are not a monolithic lot when it comes to politics. There are members here who are convinced we all line up on one side of the figurative aisle, but nothing could be further from the truth. We run the gamut from left to right on just about every issue you can name except for one: we are all interested in keeping the Lounge under control and a worthwhile place to visit for people who want to talk about the various aspects of the Era. We put aside our political differences to do what we feel is best for that purpose, and anyone who thinks we're slanting the issue one side or the other to suit our purposes honestly doesn't understand who we are or how we work. The only slant we have here is doing what we feel is best for the long-term health of the Lounge. Sometimes that means closing threads, sometimes that means deleting posts, sometimes that means letting a discussion play out to see where it's heading, sometimes it means giving members the benefit of the doubt and sometimes it means taking a firm stand with members who have repeatedly gone places we've made it clear are off limits.

Wherever we might disagree with each other as individuals on this issue or that issue, we put those differences aside and work toward that common goal. And whatever rulings we make here on what can and can't be discussed is focused on acomplishing that purpose.

And that's my last word on the subject.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

Maybe it's just the fact that all the political ad's are on TV seems to have everyone's political undies in a bunch.

 

[scottyrocks]

Some people no doubt feel put upon when their particular views are deleted, talking it politically personally when it's actually a matter of keeping the place free of outright political discussion. Don't take it personally. It's not.

 

[ButteMT61]

Some people no doubt feel put upon when their particular views are deleted, talking it politically personally when it's actually a matter of keeping the place free of outright political discussion. Don't take it personally. It's not.

I have no idea how much volume here gets deleted. I've mod'd computer-related forums before, and it was a PITA. But if the volume is low, it would be nice to explain to someone or do an "*Edit, explanation” in the thread. That's what I used to do. Seems here threads stay or go, no in between. That would be my only Christmas wish for TFL change lol

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I've found by moderating a couple forums that public explanations 'can' often result in an argument of non-agreement taking over the thread(seem familiar?)..or personal messages bombarding...until the moderator says STOP. When my posts are deleted..I'm not really ever in shock. I figure that with my zeal about something..I surely have stepped over the borderline. Nothing more.
HD

 

[ButteMT61]

I've found by moderating a couple forums that public explanations 'can' often result in an argument of non-agreement taking over the thread(seem familiar?)..or personal messages bombarding...until the moderator says STOP. When my posts are deleted..I'm not really ever in shock. I figure that with my zeal about something..I surely have stepped over the borderline. Nothing more. HD

Agree - others though seem to not feel the same way. Just trying to accommodate. I know when I'm in the edge.

 

[AmateisGal]

Considering the bartenders are all volunteers, I'd say they deserve a huge thank-you for a job that can probably sometimes seem pretty thankless.

 

[sheeplady]

Considering the bartenders are all volunteers, I'd say they deserve a huge thank-you for a job that can probably sometimes seem pretty thankless.

And has very few of the perks of real bartending.

 

[AmateisGal]

And has very few of the perks of real bartending.

No kidding!

 

[Gregg Axley]

I mod on a religious board.
Politics just adds fuel to the fire.
Deleting posts is part of the job, if the rules are being broken, or someone is walking too closely to "the line", especially if they have a history of it.
To steer us back...
There are still some good kids out there, I worked with one recently.
I say kid, he's in his 20's, and he always called me sir.
Sir...I still got my original hair color sonny!
Still nice to see that though.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I must say that I found the late teen/early 20s undergraduates in American institutions much more respectful than the ones in the UK. Even though I was a mere graduate student, they were smart enough to realise that a little respect would get them further than the surly sulking I routinely have to put up with in London.

I disagree on principle with fees for education, but I must say that the recent hikes in tuition fees for undergraduate education seems to have altered the attitudes some. With ma and pa pumping out £27, 000 for an undergraduate education, the kids now appear to view their degree less as a right, and more as a privilege. I still disagree with fees for education, though.

bk

 

[Undertow]

...I still disagree with fees for education, though...bk

I've had a problem with that as well, in as much as I think a civilized world should offer free education. My only concern is that by making higher education available to all for free, one dilutes the quality of that education, as well as making it seem almost TOO necessary. Whereas a person could graduate 8th grade and get a job based on that education alone, now you're a dunce if you don't at least have 4 years of college.

 

[ButteMT61]

I've had a problem with that as well, in as much as I think a civilized world should offer free education. My only concern is that by making higher education available to all for free, one dilutes the quality of that education, as well as making it seem almost TOO necessary. Whereas a person could graduate 8th grade and get a job based on that education alone, now you're a dunce if you don't at least have 4 years of college.

Not true these days. the tech industry has leveled that bit (no pun intended). Many techies don't have degrees, just skills and desire.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I've had a problem with that as well, in as much as I think a civilized world should offer free education. My only concern is that by making higher education available to all for free, one dilutes the quality of that education, as well as making it seem almost TOO necessary. Whereas a person could graduate 8th grade and get a job based on that education alone, now you're a dunce if you don't at least have 4 years of college.

Guess that makes me a dunce. I'd better turn in all those journalism awards.

Frankly, I think there's such a thing as too much formal education -- you end up with a lot of people who are so used to having things taught to them in a formal setting that they end up lost when they actually have to go out in the world and improvise.