Thin, lightweight cafe racer jacket?

[SklounstDraxxer]

Hi all,

Apologies for the long post. First, I've been lurking and learning a lot the past few weeks as I'm gearing up to purchase my first leather jacket, and I've really been impressed by the quality of this forum--both in terms of the breadth/depth of knowledge, and also the responsiveness and humanity of its members. Thanks for being such a wonderful community and a great resource!

I'm looking to purchase a cafe racer leather jacket with the following characteristics:

• As lightweight and thin a leather as possible. I live in Southern California and want a jacket that I can wear year-round, or close to it; also, this jacket will not be for riding.
• High quality, so in general, I'm not very interested in "fashion"-type jackets, but I am open to suggestions.
• Slim-fitting, in keeping with the cafe racer style.
• If possible, a more "matte" leather, as I don't really care for sheen.
• Not particularly concerned with historical accuracy.
• A wind/storm flap that's not too wide.

Here are the models I am currently considering:

• Schott 654VN
  
  Pros: matte leather, great fit (see pics below), lightweight
  Cons: no chest pockets, prefer darker-colored hardware, not a huge fan of the collar snap​
• Aero Buco J-100
  
  Pros: my favorite cafe racer design, high-quality, lots of options, potential for great fit
  Cons: not sure if any Aero leathers will be lightweight enough for me​
• Diamond Clothing Buco J-100
  
  Pros and cons: same as the Aero, except for potential concern about the stitching consistency on the Diamond​
• Falcon Garments M-1
  
  Pros: lots of options, availability of goatskin which could be the leather for me
  Cons: not sure if the quality is worth the price ($830), their cafe racer design is just so-so​
• I ruled out the Real McCoy Buco J-100 as being too expensive and not as easy to nail down the fit.

And here are some specific questions that I have:

• What is the thinnest/most lightweight leather that Aero uses, and would such a leather be lightweight enough for me (I realize this is speculative)? My guess is that it's either the Vicenza horsehide or the goat leather.
• How does Diamond's Shinki horsehide compare to whatever is Aero's thinnest?
• As stated, I don't care much for jackets that have a "sheen." But do they all have a sheen when new, and if so, will that wear off through normal wear?
• What do you think of the fit on the Schott 654VN (see pics below)? To me the fit is perfect, but I have no basis for comparison. I also love the "vintaged" leather (though I'm sure pre-broken in leather is anathema to some folks).
• Should I even be considering lamb leather?
• Can someone further explain the difference between goat, horsehide, and cow? I've searched on the forums here and read that goat is "pebbly" while cow and horse is "grainy"--but I have trouble visualizing these distinctions.
• Any other models I should consider?

Thanks in advance, and sorry for such a long first post!

Schott 654VN pics:

 

[Fanch]

First of all, welcome the Lounge! IMO the biggest challenge you face is the proper fit. Given your requirements, perhaps the Schott 654VN might be your best bet, and you might even be able to source a gently used one that doesn't quite fit someone else. If you live in N America, you might wish to contact Carrie at Insurrection / Thurston Bros. in Seattle for input, even a fit jacket. Maybe consider kangaroo for an Aero Cafe Racer or Board Racer as a thinner leather that is tought as nails. Again I repeat, keep in mind your most daunting task is a good fit.

 

[Doctor Strange]

Welcome. Your pics aren't showing up.

I have no experience with Aero or the other high-end makers (except Good Wear), but I'll start...

I have a Schott 654, the non-vintaged version - look for a thread where we were discussing it just a few days ago further down. It's only medium-weight cowhide, but being black and having a synthetic lining, it becomes pretty uncomfortable by around 70 degrees. (I wish it had a chest pocket too. And that the sleeve zips weren't just cosmetic and actually changed the seal - that's a pretty cheap shot on a $700 jacket.)

If you don't need a heavier leather for protection, there's nothing wrong with lambskin. There's a lot of prejudice against it here, but my summer leather jacket is a Wested lambskin Raiders with cotton lining that I've had for 15 years. (Yes, the back panel once got torn on a car door and had to be replaced. Lamb is more fragile than the other hides, but it's delightfully soft and holds up to ordinary use okay: all the other parts of my Raiders jacket are fine.)

In my not-so-vast experience, leather that starts shiny retains much of that shine through years of wear, it doesn't "become matte". Gloss vs. matte is a finish issue when the leather's dyed. And I've seen very little "topcoat wearing off to reveal undercoat" in my jackets, even the ones where I was told it would happen quickly. I mean, leather is meant to take a beating without changing.

Bearing in mind that leather varies tremendously from animal to animal and tanning/dying batch to batch, there's a very wide range of thicknesses and finishes for any given hide. But in general:

Goatskin - very supple and flexible, but incredibly tough - nearly impossible to tear or puncture - with beautiful pebble grain. A fantastic jacket hide, extremely solid without heavy weight.

Cowhide/Steerhide - has very wide variations in thickness, flexibility, graining... but generally a fine jacket leather regardless. There's a big difference between the floppy cowhide on a $200 mall jacket and a tough-as-iron $1000+ Aero! The most common leather type since it's a by-product of beef.

Horsehide - Uniquely different: thick, heavy, molds to your body and develops major creasing. Expensive because it's rarer than the others. Probably too heavy for your needs.

Lambskin - thin and even more supple/flexible than goatskin, but nowhere near as tough. Doesn't crease/grain as much as the others. Used extensively in fashion jackets because of its beautiful drape and soft hand.

Anyway, that's a start... I'm sure many others will chime in - you're right, it's a great bunch of folks here!

 

[SklounstDraxxer]

First of all, welcome the Lounge! IMO the biggest challenge you face is the proper fit. Given your requirements, perhaps the Schott 654VN might be your best bet, and you might even be able to source a gently used one that doesn't quite fit someone else. If you live in N America, you might wish to contact Carrie at Insurrection / Thurston Bros. in Seattle for input, even a fit jacket. Maybe consider kangaroo for an Aero Cafer Racer or Board Racer as a thinner leather that is tought as nails. Again I repeat, keep in mind your most daunting task is a good fit.

Thanks for the reply! Yes, I do agree that fit is paramount--so I'm really glad that Thurston Bros. has the fit jacket process. And kangaroo! Never considered that. I also don't see it listed as an available option for Aero jackets on Thurston's website...

 

[bn1966]

Brooks 'Gold Label' Vintage Cafe Racers Don't break the Bank & they come up regularly for sale (very light-weight too).

 

[SklounstDraxxer]

Welcome. Your pics aren't showing up.

I have no experience with Aero or the other high-end makers (except Good Wear), but I'll start...

I have a Schott 654, the non-vintaged version - look for a thread where we were discussing it just a few days ago further down. It's only medium-weight cowhide, but being black and having a synthetic lining, it becomes pretty uncomfortable by around 70 degrees. (I wish it had a chest pocket too. And that the sleeve zips weren't just cosmetic and actually changed the seal - that's a pretty cheap shot on a $700 jacket.)

If you don't need a heavier leather for protection, there's nothing wrong with lambskin. There's a lot of prejudice against it here, but my summer leather jacket is a Wested lambskin Raiders with cotton lining that I've had for 15 years. (Yes, the back panel once got torn on a car door and had to be replaced. Lamb is more fragile than the other hides, but it's delightfully soft and holds up to ordinary use okay: all the other parts of my Raiders jacket are fine.)

In my not-so-vast experience, leather that starts shiny retains much of that shine through years of wear, it doesn't "become matte". Gloss vs. matte is a finish issue when the leather's dyed. And I've seen very little "topcoat wearing off to reveal undercoat" in my jackets, even the ones where I was told it would happen quickly. I mean, leather is meant to take a beating without changing.

Bearing in mind that leather varies tremendously from animal to animal and tanning/dying batch to batch, there's a very wide range of thicknesses and finishes for any given hide. But in general:

Goatskin - very supple and flexible, but incredibly tough - nearly impossible to tear or puncture - with beautiful pebble grain. A fantastic jacket hide, extremely solid without heavy weight.

Cowhide/Steerhide - has very wide variations in thickness, flexibility, graining... but generally a fine jacket leather regardless. There's a big difference between the floppy cowhide on a $200 mall jacket and a tough-as-iron $1000+ Aero! The most common leather type since it's a by-product of beef.

Horsehide - Uniquely different: thick, heavy, molds to your body and develops major creasing. Expensive because it's rarer than the others. Probably too heavy for your needs.

Lambskin - thin and even more supple/flexible than goatskin, but nowhere near as tough. Doesn't crease/grain as much as the others. Used extensively in fashion jackets because of its beautiful drape and soft hand.

Anyway, that's a start... I'm sure many others will chime in - you're right, it's a great bunch of folks here!

Thanks for the comprehensive reply! You raise lots of good points, especially about shiny leather jackets staying shiny and the general aversion to lambskin.

Also, I'm not sure why my IMG tags didn't work properly. I just attempted to upload the pics but am told they're too large, even though they're only 2MB each!

 

[Americanaaa Mark]

Brooks 'Gold Label' Vintage Cafe Racers Don't break the Bank & they come up regularly for sale (very light-weight too).

View attachment 74754

came here to post this

 

[Fanch]

Thanks for the reply! Yes, I do agree that fit is paramount--so I'm really glad that Thurston Bros. has the fit jacket process. And kangaroo! Never considered that. I also don't see it listed as an available option for Aero jackets on Thurston's website...

It all depends on whether or not Aero has kangaroo on hand but recall at least one member having ordered a kangaroo jacket from Aero. Another option would be Aero's exceptionally nice veg tanned goatskin. Having said all of that, I am particularly partial to Aero's Vicenza (Italian) horsehide which I prefer over everything else I have ever seen - not too heavy nor too light. I have two Vicenza Sheenes, one russet and the other black, that are my all time favorites. A Sheene is simply a Cafe Racer with a standard collar.

 

[SklounstDraxxer]

Here are the Schott 654VN pics.

 

[SklounstDraxxer]

Brooks 'Gold Label' Vintage Cafe Racers Don't break the Bank & they come up regularly for sale (very light-weight too).

View attachment 74754

Beautiful jacket! Where is the best place to find these, and is there any way to try them on?

 

[SklounstDraxxer]

It all depends on whether or not Aero has kangaroo on hand but recall at least one member having ordered a kangaroo jacket from Aero. Another option would be Aero's exceptionally nice veg tanned goatskin. Having said all of that, I am particularly partial to Aero's Vicenza (Italian) horsehide which I prefer over everything else I have ever seen - not too heavy nor too light. I have two Vicenza Sheenes, one russet and the other black, that are my all time favorites. A Sheene is simply a Cafe Racer with a standard collar.

Ah, I've wondered what a Sheene is! How does the Vicenza horsehide compare to the goatskin in terms of weight and thickness?

 

[nick123]

Schott seems to have the most "matte" look in their naked leathers, but as far as leather thickness goes, you could try the Aero Vicenza or even look into the ELMC range of jackets. If they use anything like the Eastman A-2 horsehide I'm in SoCal and am wearing it now! Also had an Aero J-100 and it wasn't too thick or too light, however not thin. I think Vicenza or the Eastman leathers are great candidates for SoCal weather (from recent experience), but certainly not the lightest out there. In the grand scheme of things, on the hot days here, which are frequent, you won't be wearing a jacket, so I wouldn't worry too much. You could even get a wool lining. Seemed fine where I am and compared nicely to the cotton drill in my Aeros.

Of course goat is always a nice option too which generally is flexible and strong. Unless you're on the beach, it gets pretty hot here, so regardless of what jacket you get you won't wear it every day sadly.

 

[Doctor Strange]

Here are the Schott 654VN pics.

Boy, I wish any off-the-rack jacket fit me like that! I'm short and wide: my 654 is a 2XL... and I had to have the sleeves shortened almost three inches.

As others have said, fit is the critical issue with these jackets. But if you're that close to standard sizing, you're halfway there.

 

[SklounstDraxxer]

Schott seems to have the most "matte" look in their naked leathers, but as far as leather thickness goes, you could try the Aero Vicenza or even look into the ELMC range of jackets. If they use anything like the Eastman A-2 horsehide I'm in SoCal and am wearing it now! Also had an Aero J-100 and it wasn't too thick or too light, however not thin. I think Vicenza or the Eastman leathers are great candidates for SoCal weather (from recent experience), but certainly not the lightest out there. In the grand scheme of things, on the hot days here, which are frequent, you won't be wearing a jacket, so I wouldn't worry too much. You could even get a wool lining. Seemed fine where I am and compared nicely to the cotton drill in my Aeros.

Of course goat is always a nice option too which generally is flexible and strong. Unless you're on the beach, it gets pretty hot here, so regardless of what jacket you get you won't wear it every day sadly.

Yeah, I agree that Schott seems to do more "matte" leathers than other companies. Thanks for the tip on ELMC--haven't looked at them before, but their Buco J-100 looks great! And seems to very similarly priced to Aero. The ELMC J-100 claims to use an Italian vegetable-tanned horsehide, so I'm not sure if that's similar to your A-2.

In your experience, did you find the Aero Vicenza horsehide to be very similar to the Eastman horsehide on your A-2, in terms of weight and thickness?

 

[SklounstDraxxer]

Boy, I wish any off-the-rack jacket fit me like that! I'm short and wide: my 654 is a 2XL... and I had to have the sleeves shortened almost three inches.

As others have said, fit is the critical issue with these jackets. But if you're that close to standard sizing, you're halfway there.

Thank you! I feel like I got lucky. I also think the jacket fits well, but again, I have no basis for comparison--so it's great to get an objective second opinion.

If only Schott offered chest zips on their 654VN!

 

[Fanch]

Ah, I've wondered what a Sheene is! How does the Vicenza horsehide compare to the goatskin in terms of weight and thickness?

I have a black veg tanned goatskin Aero Maxwell and don't notice an appreciable difference in overall weight between it and the Vicenza Sheenes, although I do prefer Vicenza over goatskin. Just my own personal preference. A good friend of mine sent me his Vicenza Sheene as a fit jacket that you can see below. To me it has developed nice grain and appears more matte than shiny.

 

[sweetfights]

considered mid weight by most, Lost Worlds 3oz is amazing. My best jacket from Stuart- Buco J100

 

[nick123]

Yeah, I agree that Schott seems to do more "matte" leathers than other companies. Thanks for the tip on ELMC--haven't looked at them before, but their Buco J-100 looks great! And seems to very similarly priced to Aero. The ELMC J-100 claims to use an Italian vegetable-tanned horsehide, so I'm not sure if that's similar to your A-2.

In your experience, did you find the Aero Vicenza horsehide to be very similar to the Eastman horsehide on your A-2, in terms of weight and thickness?

The Vicenza seems a little thicker. Not sure I'd want a Cafe Racer in anything thinner than that. But the ELMC may be worth looking into. Eastman uses some very pretty leather btw. Doesn't get talked about enough on here.

 

[SklounstDraxxer]

I have a black veg tanned goatskin Aero Maxwell and don't notice an appreciable difference in overall weight between it and the Vicenza Sheenes, although I do prefer Vicenza over goatskin. Just my own personal preference. A good friend of mine sent me his Vicenza Sheene as a fit jacket that you can see below. To me it has developed nice grain and appears more matte than shiny.

View attachment 74758

Thanks--good to hear from people who have direct experience with both Vicenza horsehide and Aero's goatskin. Also, I agree with you about the sheen on the Sheene (ha!)--definitely acceptable to me, although I feel like it's less pronounced because of the brown color.

 

[Gamma68]

I recently bought a new Schott 654 (the standard version, not the VN) and am enjoying wearing it. It seems to meet most of your criteria, SklounstDraxxer. Yes, there is some sheen to the leather on mine, but my understanding is exposure to water (as in light rainfall) will reduce that characteristic.

Here's a photo of mine, along with the link to the accompanying thread: http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/schott-654-casual-racer.90415/