Thin, lightweight cafe racer jacket?

[Edward]

If you're looking at Aero, ask them what hides they have: they might have something unusual in. Their goat is a fantastic compromise between light weight but still robust. Definitely the lightest of their regularly stocked leathers, in my experience.

As the good Doctor Strange has noted, however, if you're not frightened off by the apparent fragility, lamb can also be a good choice. I would say equally important is your choice of lining: I've owned an A2 and an AN6552 both in Aero's goat, and the latter was significantly warmer, largely due to the synthetic lining.

It all depends on whether or not Aero has kangaroo on hand but recall at least one member having ordered a kangaroo jacket from Aero.

Last I heard it's not on their general offerings yet as they weren't sure they could get enough of it, but worth asking them about it. I'm very keen to try roo myself.

Guys, I've just had some very interesting correspondence with Diamond Dave, where I posed to him some of my same questions from here. Currently he only has Shinki and Horween Chromexcel horsehide available for jackets (no goatskin), and the Horween is actually a lighter weight! The Shinki is 3.25 to 3.5 oz., whereas the Horween is more like 2.5 to 3 oz. (which he pointed out is lighter than the 4 oz. that Aero uses) and "drapes like originals" (not sure what that means?).

Anyhow, I find this enlightening--based on my reading here, I thought that "specialty" horsehide like Shinki and Vicenza were thinner than something like Horween.

So Diamond Dave is making the case for Horween horsehide!

As has been noted, Horween is a tannery rather than one specific type; that said, even batches of the same Horween hide can vary one to the next. That's one of the things about organic material: you'll never find total consistency between batches.

 

[devilish]

This is my Good Wear Buco J-100. It's made from Horween HH. It's about 2.5-3oz and is super soft. John doesn't offer this leather anymore (as far as I know) but from what I've gathered it's very similar to what Diamond Dave uses. It's a very versatile hide in terms of temperature. However I'm not sure any black leather jacket is going to be very comfortable at the max temps of SoCal? I'm warm blooded and I couldn't wear one, even though I do wear leather at temps most people consider ridiculous!
This is wonderful leather and the jacket is the same pattern as DD uses. Dave and John collaborated on the design from the same original Buco.

 

[pak]

I have a n-200 in goat from Johnson Leathers. It is thin and the jacket is light for a leather jacket. They will alter the model to your size and requested changes(pockets, zips etc). The goat is similar in weight I have seen on Wings, Cooper and US authentic jackets. I have an Eastman A2 in goat and it is a substantial hide, very similar to the goat in an early '50s G-1 I once owned. I also have a Goodwear Doniger in goat. It is a solid leather somewhere between the Eastman and the JL jacket.

 

[sweetfights]

Any idea how Lost Worlds' 3 oz. horsehide compares to Aero's Vicenza horsehide?

actually very similar from the vicenza samples I received from Carrie. Both seem matte in finish. The Lost World's was a little more robust and would probably repel water better.

 

[SklounstDraxxer]

Horween is a Tannery brand-name not a particular type of leather. They make a lot of different types and weights.

I see...so theoretically it would be possible for Horween to "carry"/process Vicenza or Shinki? Also, does Chromexcel simply refer to a tanning process which can also be applied to various types of leathers?

At any rate, I was surprised that Shinki is not the thinnest leather that Diamond Dave currently carries.

 

[SklounstDraxxer]

Yep and Aero's FQHH is 3oz. That's a heavy hide in a warmer place. I've tried to wear 3oz jackets on and off since 1983. It's a pleasing thickness and I always think I know better than nature. But every 3oz jacket I've owned I've sold - the weather just isn't cold enough. Even my nice soft 3oz steer went off to Chicago where it might do some good.

Yeah, and I just heard back from Carrie @ Thurston: Aero's Vicenza is 3 oz., and even their goat is 2.75 oz. Those are currently the thinnest hides they offer.

 

[SklounstDraxxer]

If you're looking at Aero, ask them what hides they have: they might have something unusual in. Their goat is a fantastic compromise between light weight but still robust. Definitely the lightest of their regularly stocked leathers, in my experience.

As the good Doctor Strange has noted, however, if you're not frightened off by the apparent fragility, lamb can also be a good choice. I would say equally important is your choice of lining: I've owned an A2 and an AN6552 both in Aero's goat, and the latter was significantly warmer, largely due to the synthetic lining.

Carrie @ Thurston just informed me that their thinnest offerings for Aero is Vicenza (3 oz.) and goatskin (2.75 oz.)--so unfortunately no unusual leathers right now. As far as lambskin, I am open to the idea, but it seems like none of the quality makers we've discussed here even offer it. Do you have any suggestions on who does lamb?

 

[SklounstDraxxer]

View attachment 74797
This is my Good Wear Buco J-100. It's made from Horween HH. It's about 2.5-3oz and is super soft. John doesn't offer this leather anymore (as far as I know) but from what I've gathered it's very similar to what Diamond Dave uses. It's a very versatile hide in terms of temperature. However I'm not sure any black leather jacket is going to be very comfortable at the max temps of SoCal? I'm warm blooded and I couldn't wear one, even though I do wear leather at temps most people consider ridiculous!
This is wonderful leather and the jacket is the same pattern as DD uses. Dave and John collaborated on the design from the same original Buco.

That looks AWESOME! If I end up with a J-100 that fits me this well, I will be a happy camper indeed. Yes, the Horween HH specs line right up with what Dave told me yesterday--2.5 to 3 oz. is exactly what he said. I was just surprised it was thinner than Shinki. The drape looks great on that! How was the break-in period?

 

[SklounstDraxxer]

actually very similar from the vicenza samples I received from Carrie. Both seem matte in finish. The Lost World's was a little more robust and would probably repel water better.

That makes sense. I just learned that Aero's Vicenza is also 3 oz.!

 

[Sloan1874]

First of all, welcome the Lounge! IMO the biggest challenge you face is the proper fit. Given your requirements, perhaps the Schott 654VN might be your best bet, and you might even be able to source a gently used one that doesn't quite fit someone else. If you live in N America, you might wish to contact Carrie at Insurrection / Thurston Bros. in Seattle for input, even a fit jacket. Maybe consider kangaroo for an Aero Cafe Racer or Board Racer as a thinner leather that is tought as nails. Again I repeat, keep in mind your most daunting task is a good fit.

You might also want to consider goat, which is a really hard wearing but light skin.

 

[SklounstDraxxer]

You might also want to consider goat, which is a really hard wearing but light skin.

Thanks--yes, goat is definitely in the running. Aero's goat is slightly lighter weight than their Vicenza horsehide.

 

[Sloan1874]

Yes, I would definitely say that's the case.

 

[bn1966]

I've recently been introduced to 'Cape' hide which is from a Sheep I believe and is very light. My introduction was via an A-1 (which is my lightest leather jacket). My Hartman is in Cape too Cape is a lot more substantial than I originally thought it would be

 

[devilish]

That looks AWESOME! If I end up with a J-100 that fits me this well, I will be a happy camper indeed. Yes, the Horween HH specs line right up with what Dave told me yesterday--2.5 to 3 oz. is exactly what he said. I was just surprised it was thinner than Shinki. The drape looks great on that! How was the break-in period?

There was very little break in time at all. John at GW did wear it for awhile to test the pattern but most of what you see there is me wearing this jacket. I'd say after about a month it looked nice and worn. I've worn it in the rain until almost soaked through but it air dried in no time and looked better for it.

I have a Shinki A-2 and this Horween is definitely thinner and softer but still strong. It isn't Chromexel (which is just a chrome tanning process) and it's black all the way through. Which apparently most original J-100's were?

 

[ProteinNerd]

I see...so theoretically it would be possible for Horween to "carry"/process Vicenza or Shinki? Also, does Chromexcel simply refer to a tanning process which can also be applied to various types of leathers?

No Horween can't offer Shinki or Vicenza. That's like Coca Cola offering Pepsi. They are all proprietary types of leather produced by different companies.

They all make their own leathers with closely guarded processes that are unique to them (like all Tanneries). Shinki is made by a tannery in Japan and Vicenza is Italian.

I guess its possible for them to make something similar but I'm not sure what they call it.

CXL or Chromexcel is a tanning process, I think its unique to Horween?

You can usually ask the makers to send you a small sample of the leather so you can get an idea but I've always found it hard to get a real idea for how it will translate to a whole jacket but then again, its better than going in completely blind.

I haven't had a lamb jacket for years so its hard to compare. A lot of them feel nice and soft in the store but I have read more than once that lamb is really prone to stretching over time so the whole jacket can lose its shape and it can easily tear etc. I prefer to keep something that costs a few grand for a long time so I'm not really into lamb jackets.

Welcome to the rabbit hole lol


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[ProteinNerd]

Two other things that may be worth considering for a climate like So-Cal and Sydney (where I am)

The leather itself doesn't really influence how "warm" a jacket is, that's more the liner. Go for a cotton or maybe light weight wool liner.

Having said that a heavy leather that rests heavy on your shoulders and back will get hot quicker in warmer weather.

My Diamond Dave Shinki Buco J-100 is probably my best option for warmer weather. Cotton liner with the relatively light leather plus, the leather is slightly stiff so it doesn't drape completely flush against my body, plus it has a little room for air to circulate, its not a super tight fit.

Sorry to add more factors to be considered.




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[SklounstDraxxer]

Two other things that may be worth considering for a climate like So-Cal and Sydney (where I am)

The leather itself doesn't really influence how "warm" a jacket is, that's more the liner. Go for a cotton or maybe light weight wool liner.

Having said that a heavy leather that rests heavy on your shoulders and back will get hot quicker in warmer weather.

My Diamond Dave Shinki Buco J-100 is probably my best option for warmer weather. Cotton liner with the relatively light leather plus, the leather is slightly stiff so it doesn't drape completely flush against my body, plus it has a little room for air to circulate, its not a super tight fit.

Sorry to add more factors to be considered.

Don't be sorry at all! Thanks for all the info--I appreciate as many data points and points of view as possible. Of course, at the end of the day I will simply have to pull the trigger!

Right now, it seems like Diamond Dave's Buco J-100 in Horween horsehide is the absolute thinnest leather I can find--he quoted me a range of 2.5 oz to 3 oz. I think after that it's Aero's goatskin (which Carrie said is 2.75 oz.), and then Vicenza horsehide at 3 oz. Interestingly, the official specs place Vicenza as being thinner than Shinki (which Diamond Dave said was more like 3.25 to 3.5 oz.)--which goes against the subjective experiences of most people here.

So my top two choices right now are Diamond Dave and Aero. As Aero offers a fit jacket, I will probably take advantage of that to see how it is in real life. The Diamond Dave seems harder to see in real life--especially in the Horween horsehide, as most seem to have Shinki!

 

[SklounstDraxxer]

Also, I hear horsehide takes a long time to break in, and even then, it sometimes has a tendency to keep flexing back towards its old shape. Are there thinner or softer versions of horsehide that are easier to wear?

 

[Seb Lucas]

Almost anything you say about any leather type is true. It all depends on the processing, the thickness, the batch and the animal itself. Some FQHH, for instance is firm and unyielding and some is soft and malleable.

You can (or used to be able to) get a thinner goat 2.2oz from Johnson Leathers San Fran. I had a cafe racer in goat by them for a few years which was very nice. Talk to Alan. I'd be working with him. He used to stock 2.2oz horse hide too. Aero used to,use that thickness for A2's.

 

[SklounstDraxxer]

Almost anything you say about any leather type is true. It all depends on the processing, the thickness, the batch and the animal itself. Some FQHH, for instance is firm and unyielding and some is soft and malleable.

You can (or used to be able to) get a thinner goat 2.2oz from Johnson Leathers San Fran. I had a cafe racer in goat by them for a few years which was very nice. Talk to Alan. I'd be working with him. He used to stock 2.2oz horse hide too. Aero used to,use that thickness for A2's.

True. So I guess I'll need to be more specific in asking about particular leathers from particular makers.

Yeah, I saw Johnson mentioned earlier in this thread, and may give them a holler.