The Yoga Pants trend

[herringbonekid]

I can only make one of two assumptions in such circumstances: either she forgot to put her skirt on once tights had been donned, or she hasn't realised just how much is visible through them.

there was a young lady at my girlfriend's workplace who frequently wore this 'look'. it prompted the joke "what shall we get **** for her birthday ?"
the answer... "a skirt".
my girlfriend is also convinced that the young lady in question had no idea how visible her underwear was through the leggings. i think, as mentioned above, that the main thinking behind the style is 'sexiness' and if underwear is partially visible, so be it.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Man, just be glad there were knickers.:eeek: Actually, how could you see the underwear past the plus fours?

the sight of a young lady walking past with her knickers basically on full display.

Personally I quite like yoga pants. But then I have terrible letcherous old sod tendencies. The Baroness looks great in them. Though she only wears them for yoga/pilates.

 

[Flicka]

I posted about this last night, but it seems not to have registered for some reason. Very often in this last couple of years I have seen young ladies in London wearing leggings which probably look solid black when not being worn, but once donned lave nothing to the imagination. It wouldn't be the first time that I had looked up from my book at the wwrong moment as the tube pulled into or out of a stop, only to be confronted with the sight of a young lady walking past with her knickers basically on full display. I can only make one of two assumptions in such circumstances: either she forgot to put her skirt on once tights had been donned, or she hasn't realised just how much is visible through them.

I once wore calf-length leggings with a skirt over (back in 2006 or something) to work, and my lovely and rather brusque elderly male colleague looked at me and said: "For crying out loud, *mylastname*! Enough is enough! You look like something from Alice in Wonderland."

I laughed so hard I almost cracked a rib and I haven't worn leggings with anything since.

You have to love honest feedback!

 

[MisterCairo]

A couple things.

First, a few folks in this thread believe the following: A person can wear whatever he or she wants. However, no one can draw any conclusions about that other person's dress or appearance. Furthermore, the person that makes the conclusions is viewed as doing something wrong or bad. The these folks I ask, "When did judgment and criticism become bad things?" Criticism does not necessarily include malicious intent or harm. Saying, that color doesn't work for him is considered abhorrent?

Does the "do what you want" attitude apply to all walks of life? Can I tell the bank, I'll make my loan payments when I feel like it? If a person has a messy home, is he not a lazy, slob?

Second, I find it ironic that people embrace the "do what you want" attitude when that sort of attitude has led to the "relaxed" clothing atmosphere we are currently in.

By the way, based on my comments, you cannot make any conclusions or draw any preconceived notions about me, Son_of_Atropos.

:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap

 

[MisterCairo]

As my wife is a high school teacher, dress and deportment is an issue that comes up often, usually (not exclusively though) about female students' attire.

Although her school has not yet "banned" yoga pants, many in Ontario, Canada have done so. Here is a link to an on-line news item from Ottawa, that includes a link to a newscast you can view (there's a 15 second commercial first).

If there is any doubt about what "yoga pants" this thread is about, WATCH the clip!

Not being judgmental by the way, just saying....

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-bans-yoga-pants/article2254719/?from=2255056

 

[Baron Kurtz]

It would seem that "do what you want" certainly allows for setting up as many straw men as possible!

To be honest, as regards anything someone wants to do that doesn't harm anyone else - do what you want! Absolute freedom in one's personal life is the single greatest thing about being alive today.

Does the "do what you want" attitude apply to all walks of life? Can I tell the bank, I'll make my loan payments when I feel like it? If a person has a messy home, is he not a lazy, slob?

Second, I find it ironic that people embrace the "do what you want" attitude when that sort of attitude has led to the "relaxed" clothing atmosphere we are currently in.

By the way, based on my comments, you cannot make any conclusions or draw any preconceived notions about me, Son_of_Atropos.

 

[sheeplady]

First, a few folks in this thread believe the following: A person can wear whatever he or she wants. However, no one can draw any conclusions about that other person's dress or appearance. Furthermore, the person that makes the conclusions is viewed as doing something wrong or bad. The these folks I ask, "When did judgment and criticism become bad things?" Criticism does not necessarily include malicious intent or harm. Saying, that color doesn't work for him is considered abhorrent?

Does the "do what you want" attitude apply to all walks of life? Can I tell the bank, I'll make my loan payments when I feel like it? If a person has a messy home, is he not a lazy, slob?

I believe a person can well dress however they want, as long as they are legally clothed. However, they have to be able to deal with the consequences if their dress is determined to be inappropriate- they might get fired, they might lose an interview, they might be turned away from an eating establishment or fail a class. You actually have the choice to not pay your mortgage, believe it or not. Many people have chosen not to pay their mortgages if they are underwater. But when they foreclose on your home, you better be prepared to deal with the consequences.

Consequences follow actions. Having a choice to do something doesn't mean that choice is consequence free. I don't think anyone here is arguing that actions don't have consequences or that they shouldn't.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Consequences follow actions. Having a choice to do something doesn't mean that choice is consequence free. I don't think anyone here is arguing that actions don't have consequences or that they shouldn't.

Well said.

As far as judging on appearances goes, if I'm walking down the street and see someone coming toward me in a filthy raincoat, mismatched shoes, and a baseball cap with an obscene slogan on it, reeking of alcohol and mumbling to himself, I'm going to make a snap judgement based on appearance, without apology and without regret. I'm going avert my eyes and quicken my pace and I'm not going to think to myself "I bet he's a swell guy once you get to know him." And I'm quite certain that every single person who's posted in this thread would react in exactly the same way. We all judge by appearances, every day of our lives, whether consciously or subconsciously, and to pretend otherwise is self-delusion. And the wise person takes that into account when planning their own wardrobe for the day.

"I am shocked -- SHOCKED -- to find people drawing conclusions about me based on the way I'm dressed!"

 

[reetpleat]

Well said.

As far as judging on appearances goes, if I'm walking down the street and see someone coming toward me in a filthy raincoat, mismatched shoes, and a baseball cap with an obscene slogan on it, reeking of alcohol and mumbling to himself, I'm going to make a snap judgement based on appearance, without apology and without regret. I'm going avert my eyes and quicken my pace and I'm not going to think to myself "I bet he's a swell guy once you get to know him." And I'm quite certain that every single person who's posted in this thread would react in exactly the same way. We all judge by appearances, every day of our lives, whether consciously or subconsciously, and to pretend otherwise is self-delusion. And the wise person takes that into account when planning their own wardrobe for the day.

"I am shocked -- SHOCKED -- to find people drawing conclusions about me based on the way I'm dressed!"

Yes, you have every right to think that. And if it is a matter of hiring someone, doing business with them, or perhaps avoiding them for your personal safety, then it seems reasonable to judge people as to how it might affect you.

However, if it does not make any difference as to affecting you (other than upsetting you because it does not meet some standard you hold) then I would suggest it does not affect the other person much if at all, however, it may well make you a little poorer spiritually. Every time we judge a human being negatively, instead of seeing them as the wonderful beautiful beings that we all are, despite whatever issues we may have , then I would suggest you are cheating yourself a little bit, and perhaps doing a bit of a disservice to the other person and humanity.

Personally, I wish I could get rid of all my judgemental attitudes and only make judgements based on how it might affect me, not on weather they strike some attitude I have about how people should be or not. Now, granted, if I am going to date, or befriend, or hang out with or do business with someone, I will hold them to a higher standard. But I wish I could squelch the negative judgements that randomly pop into my head all the time. Generally, I feel we do them because it somehow makes us feel better about ourselves. Or, rather, is a misguided attempt to do so.

Now, mind you Lizzie, when I say you, I am not speaking about you directly. It is the universal you if you will. I don't care to use one. It is awkward.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I think it happens more out of our basic animal nature than any conscious effort, to be honest. When an animal encounters another animal in the wild, it has to immediately decide, based on instinct, whether that animal is a threat or not, and what its particular niche is in the hierarchy of the forest. It's the same thing with us -- we wrap it up in sociological/tribal/societal trappings, but we still do it because it's hard-wired into us. We always have, and despite the best efforts of Civilization to break us of the habit, we always will. Better to simply understand why we do it, and what we can do to compensate for it, than to try to eliminate something that's as much a part of us as breathing.

What that all means in real-life terms is -- understand that people are going to judge us by how we present ourselves. And don't be shocked or surprised or upset when they do it.

 

[scottyrocks]

Yes, we are judged on appearance first. And how often are (the collective) we wrong? More often than one might think.

Judging people, and/or the way they dress is fine. It's how it leads the judger in a particular direction that is questionable. Do I want to see a slob (whatever one's definition of that is) at a job interview where I'm doing the interviewing? No, but at the same time, I will try to ascertain the real person by getting to know then the best I can. What of the drunk Lizzie mentioned earlier? That crosses my line. Too many negatives to make it worth my while to bother. But the well dressed, well spoken, qualified interviewee will have the edge every time.

As to the conundrum of folks (here) who say that they don't judge and criticize those who do, or vice-versa, everyone has different opinions, qualifications, jobs, and responsibilities. Different social contexts have different underlying (as well as overlying) criteria of acceptability. Blanket statements and judgments don't cut it.

 

[sheeplady]

Judging people, and/or the way they dress is fine. It's how it leads the judger in a particular direction that is questionable. Do I want to see a slob (whatever one's definition of that is) at a job interview where I'm doing the interviewing? No, but at the same time, I will try to ascertain the real person by getting to know then the best I can. What of the drunk Lizzie mentioned earlier? That crosses my line. Too many negatives to make it worth my while to bother. But the well dressed, well spoken, qualified interviewee will have the edge every time.

It's not the judging that is the problem in my opinion. It's the action and response you take that can be. For instance, treating a customer poorly because they "don't look rich" isn't good on many levels. I've only known a few millionaires in my life, and most of them you couldn't tell they had money until they left you a tip, in fact, most of them you'd think the opposite: torn and old (but clean) clothing. Sometimes these people looked that way on purpose. I've also known my share of truly incredibly brilliant people, and a good portion of them come across as disorganized slobs when you first meet them. And I've also known a couple of slime balls who dress like they have a million bucks and are the most soulless people I have ever met.

I think part of the problem is that the language for "judging" is too broad. I think sometimes when we hear the word "judge" we think of "condemn." But a person can very well judge that another person's appearance doesn't match their intelligence or give a good impression of them- either way. And somebody can even "judge" someone's appearance negatively and still hold them in high regard or judge their appearance "positively" and think they belong in the sewer (except that you'd feel sorry for the poor sewer rats who had to cohabitate).

 

[Pompidou]

It's not so much the judging in dispute here, I imagine, as what qualifies as worthy of casting a negative judgement on a person. Taken to one extreme where it's okay to judge, nobody would bat an eye for judging nazis, pedophiles, murderers and such. At a certain threshold, judging becomes okay, or maybe condemning, depending on how the word judging is used. On the other hand, is it right to draw conclusions about a person's work ethic and morals because s/ he wears clothes that are actually socially acceptable? Clothes are a cultural thing and should be looked at accordingly. In a society where it's okay and sometimes even popular to dress a certain way, it's not right to make too many extrapolations off a judgement. A guy wearing shorts and a ball cap isn't a boy who doesn't want to act his age, he's a guy wearing shorts and a ballcap. Those sweatpants with words on the butt are popular and available at most every clothes store. Same with the other things that draw ire here. It's surprising the statements that arise in threads about them. Some draw conclusions like she doesn't take pride in her appearance, is lazy, etc. that might be going a bit far. All you can really say is that she probably shops at the local shopping centers and buys what lots of people buy. People can take pride in their appearance and still not please everyone. Those guys with saggy pants and oversized shirts put a ton of effort jnto their appearance, trying to look a certain part. Even pajama wearers are often just doing what lots of people do and nobody thinks anything of it. Every culture dresses differently. Ours dresses in what you see every day. I don't think it's right or wrong. It's pretty much just ethnic attire, to an extent - western civilization ethnic attire shaped to an extent by the media.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I've also known my share of truly incredibly brilliant people, and a good portion of them come across as disorganized slobs when you first meet them.

One of the most brilliant men I ever met -- a veteran of the Manhattan Project, a world-known poet/publisher/eccentric/freethinker -- dressed like someone who'd been kicked out of the Bowery for excessive slovenliness. He was a fascinating man to talk to -- but I wouldn't ever have trusted him to look after my house or feed my cat, because he could barely take care of himself. He was brilliant, but that disheveled exterior concealed an even more disheveled interior.

I'd gladly hire an eccentric-looking hipster goofball to do an art project, although I wouldn't be surprised to have it delivered late -- but I'd never, ever hire someone who boasted of his flouting of the rules and doing things his own way, etc, to do my income tax. There are many, many aspects of life in which common sense strongly supports the idea of judging a book by its cover.

It's not just we ill-tempered atavists who think so, either. Here's a modern take on the subject by a guy who seems to have his head screwed on straight.

 

[Son_of_Atropos]

It would seem that "do what you want" certainly allows for setting up as many straw men as possible!

To be honest, as regards anything someone wants to do that doesn't harm anyone else - do what you want! Absolute freedom in one's personal life is the single greatest thing about being alive today.

Come, come, Baron. What straw men? How is it any different then the notion that everyone should just implicitly accept the argument that freedom is good; therefore, letting people do whatever they want--caveat, as long as it doesn't harm anyone (whatever that means)-- is also good. My point was the people who embrace this "do what you want" resent people who critique them. Do you see the contradiction? They want this magical make believe land where all of their actions carry no consequences. I tell those people, "Good luck."

 

[scottyrocks]

If (the collective) you are relating how people dress in Walmart to some set of meaningful consequences, how do we know how these people dress professionally, while at work? Does the woman in the sweats with the word HOT emblazoned across her butt wear that outfit in her law office? Most likely not. Does she work in a law office? Is she a dance instructor? What are the consequences, if any, of the way she is dressed? Do we know just by looking at her?

What you see when you look at someone, especially someone you see momentarily, is a snapshot in time. We don't know much anything, if anything at all, about them, especially if all you see is what you see. You don;t hear their voice. You don;t see their mannerisms. You don't have a conversation. That's why I said broad generalizations are meaningless. We need context. We need context to make informed opinions. Judging a person, and thinking you've gotten it all correct, based solely on what you see they are wearing, is not fair to the person being judged, or yourself, for that matter.

 

[Son_of_Atropos]

However, if it does not make any difference as to affecting you (other than upsetting you because it does not meet some standard you hold) then I would suggest it does not affect the other person much if at all, however, it may well make you a little poorer spiritually. Every time we judge a human being negatively, instead of seeing them as the wonderful beautiful beings that we all are, despite whatever issues we may have , then I would suggest you are cheating yourself a little bit, and perhaps doing a bit of a disservice to the other person and humanity.

Personally, I wish I could get rid of all my judgemental attitudes and only make judgements based on how it might affect me, not on weather they strike some attitude I have about how people should be or not. Now, granted, if I am going to date, or befriend, or hang out with or do business with someone, I will hold them to a higher standard. But I wish I could squelch the negative judgements that randomly pop into my head all the time. Generally, I feel we do them because it somehow makes us feel better about ourselves. Or, rather, is a misguided attempt to do so.

How many spiritual points does someone have? Why is it assumed that judging someone decreases my spiritual points. Is it better to have a 5% decrease in spiritual points versus being assaulted, accosted, or battered (I assume this would decrease my health points).

If you are wearing a bespoke suit versus someone wearing a t-shirt and jeans. It's a fact that the person wearing the suit is better dressed than the t-shirt and jeans. I don't see how it is negative.

 

[Son_of_Atropos]

What you see when you look at someone, especially someone you see momentarily, is a snapshot in time. We don't know much anything, if anything at all, about them, especially if all you see is what you see. You don;t hear their voice. You don;t see their mannerisms. You don't have a conversation. That's why I said broad generalizations are meaningless. We need context. We need context to make informed opinions. Judging a person, and thinking you've gotten it all correct, based solely on what you see they are wearing, is not fair to the person being judged, or yourself, for that matter.

What if your conclusion is that the person doesn't know how to dress? Is that bad?

 

[Baron Kurtz]

An absurd juxtaposition. Something like a comparison of someone's decision to wear a certain type of pants (no consequences for others), and their decision not to pay their mortgage/loan (which does have consequences for others, as well as the non-payer).

Setting such an argument that's absurd on its face must necessarily be considered to be in the realm of straw men.

Come, come, Baron. What straw men?

I'm not seeing this resentment myself, but maybe we've talked to different people. And neither have I met people who think their actions have no consequences. They may believe - and often they're right - that the consequences are often overly harsh. (As a young woman, The Baroness was fired for having shaved patch on her head. Any amounts of tattoos, piercings, hair colours etc were fine. But the shaved patch was not on the approved list of hair modifications. [huh])

My point was the people who embrace this "do what you want" resent people who critique them. Do you see the contradiction? They want this magical make believe land where all of their actions carry no consequences. I tell those people, "Good luck."

 

[LizzieMaine]

I think the point to keep in mind is that people, no matter what their circs, and no matter what the situation, don't dress randomly. Unless it's a situation where people are genuinely destitute and just wearing whatever they can scrounge, every person who gets dressed in the morning makes a deliberate choice to dress in the way that they do. Nobody is *issued* a pair of pink spandex pants with PORN STAR emblazoned in glitter across the hindmost, one walks into a store and makes a deliberate choice to purchase such an item, and then they make a deliberate choice to wear such a garment in public. She's going out of her way to make a personal statement of how she sees herself and her place in society by choosing to put that particular message across her chair-warmer. What possible rationale can there be, then, for *not* drawing some sort of conclusion about, not just that person's fashion sense, but her overall sense of propriety and personal judgment? Would you hire her to babysit your kids?