The Yoga Pants trend

[Son_of_Atropos]

This is the problem around here. I disagree that that is a fact. This i your opinion, not fact. To begin from this premise infects all your future conclusions.

Why do you disagree with it though? If you suggest that everything is relative, then by that logic Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel has the same artistic value as a child's finger painting.

 

[Son_of_Atropos]

Reminds me of Life of Brian - the scene when Brian's: "We're all different" is met with a murmur of consent and nodding from crowd, until one man raises his hand and says: "I'm not."

Reminds me of an old Simpson's episode where Lisa says, "How rebellious. In a conformist sort of way."

 

[Noirblack]

Believe what you like. I think for the most part "creativity" and "innovation" were co-opted long ago by the Boys From Marketing and turned into tools for brainwashing the public into buying more and more things they don't need, anything to feed the ever-gaping maw of postwar consumer culture. Putting yet another "ironic" slogan on yet another cheap Chinese-made T-shirt is hardly creative or innovative. Coming up with yet another overpriced permutation of the common rubber-soled sneaker is just cutting the same old dough into a new loaf. Introducing a new label and a different stitching pattern to the pockets on a pair of cheap dungarees is not too far removed from swindling the natives out of their land for a bucket full of shiny rocks.

If you want to play their game, you're certainly free to do so, but don't be surprised if you wake up one day and realize you've been had.

As far as harsh goes, I don't think it's half harsh enough. But I'm trying to be nice.

So if I need to buy a new pair of pants, or a shirt or pair of shoes I'm being had? What about when you buy a new item of clothing? Are you also being had? C'mon, everybody needs to wear clothes. It isn't a matter of being co-opted by the "Boys from Marketing". It's a matter of not walking around in clothes so old they are full of holes and fraying. Are you saying we all should wear worn out old clothes?

 

[reetpleat]

It's not the judging that is the problem in my opinion. It's the action and response you take that can be. For instance, treating a customer poorly because they "don't look rich" isn't good on many levels. I've only known a few millionaires in my life, and most of them you couldn't tell they had money until they left you a tip, in fact, most of them you'd think the opposite: torn and old (but clean) clothing. Sometimes these people looked that way on purpose. I've also known my share of truly incredibly brilliant people, and a good portion of them come across as disorganized slobs when you first meet them. And I've also known a couple of slime balls who dress like they have a million bucks and are the most soulless people I have ever met.

I think part of the problem is that the language for "judging" is too broad. I think sometimes when we hear the word "judge" we think of "condemn." But a person can very well judge that another person's appearance doesn't match their intelligence or give a good impression of them- either way. And somebody can even "judge" someone's appearance negatively and still hold them in high regard or judge their appearance "positively" and think they belong in the sewer (except that you'd feel sorry for the poor sewer rats who had to cohabitate).

Living here in Seattle where style is casual and a lot of young people make a lot of money doing jobs at which they do not have to dress up, there are numerous stories in the Real Estate community about the guy who is ignored due to his or her appearance, only to buy the half million dollar house from another agent. While some may be urban legends, I know of at least one. Punk rock looking girl with a piercings, who just happend to have gotten in at Microsoft when the stock options were handed out like candy.

 

[LizzieMaine]

So if I need to buy a new pair of pants, or a shirt or pair of shoes I'm being had? What about when you buy a new item of clothing? Are you also being had? C'mon, everybody needs to wear clothes. It isn't a matter of being co-opted by the "Boys from Marketing". It's a matter of not walking around in clothes so old they are full of holes and fraying. Are you saying we all should wear worn out old clothes?

I haven't bought a "new" item of clothing, aside from underwear and the occasional pair of shoes, in nearly twenty years. I make my own clothes. When they get worn, I repair them. When my shoes wear thru I have them resoled and reheeled and keep wearing them. More people should do that. More people should realize they *do* have a choice not to go along with consumer culture, they don't have to be led around by the credit card to spend money they don't have on things they don't need. And every time I sit down at the sewing machine I'm happily thumbing my nose at the Boys From Marketing. They can keep their Bangladeshi sweatshops and their trendy disposable junk for some other pigeon.

 

[reetpleat]

I think it happens more out of our basic animal nature than any conscious effort, to be honest. When an animal encounters another animal in the wild, it has to immediately decide, based on instinct, whether that animal is a threat or not, and what its particular niche is in the hierarchy of the forest. It's the same thing with us -- we wrap it up in sociological/tribal/societal trappings, but we still do it because it's hard-wired into us. We always have, and despite the best efforts of Civilization to break us of the habit, we always will. Better to simply understand why we do it, and what we can do to compensate for it, than to try to eliminate something that's as much a part of us as breathing.

What that all means in real-life terms is -- understand that people are going to judge us by how we present ourselves. And don't be shocked or surprised or upset when they do it.

Well, of course we make judgements based on people's appearance, and I suppose there is deep instinct involved. But don't forget. the conversation is about yoga pants, and I don't think I face any real threat from a girl in yoga pants. Quite the contrary, she is probably quite calm and flexible.

And while I don't think we are in much danger of it, if a girl who likes yoga pants finds here way to this forum, she should probably not be too shocked or upset at the opinions expressed. However, I would assume that most people's attire works for them in the world through which they move.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

This actually happened to my folks once. They had recently sold a property for a good amount and had cash money to buy another. The realtor ignored them and the next guy got the sale. No mortgages to deal with or anything, it was an easy deal. They were ignored because they had both come from work and Mom had on factory clothes and Dad had on farm clothes.

People constantly come into the family shop and think that I own the place because of how I'm dressed compared to others. Just shows you can't judge a book by its cover.

Living here in Seattle where style is casual and a lot of young people make a lot of money doing jobs at which they do not have to dress up, there are numerous stories in the Real Estate community about the guy who is ignored due to his or her appearance, only to buy the half million dollar house from another agent. While some may be urban legends, I know of at least one. Punk rock looking girl with a piercings, who just happend to have gotten in at Microsoft when the stock options were handed out like candy.

 

[Noirblack]

I haven't bought a "new" item of clothing, aside from underwear and the occasional pair of shoes, in nearly twenty years. I make my own clothes. When they get worn, I repair them. When my shoes wear thru I have them resoled and reheeled and keep wearing them. More people should do that. More people should realize they *do* have a choice not to go along with consumer culture, they don't have to be led around by the credit card to spend money they don't have on things they don't need. And every time I sit down at the sewing machine I'm happily thumbing my nose at the Boys From Marketing. They can keep their Bangladeshi sweatshops and their trendy disposable junk for some other pigeon.

Good to know.

 

[Pompidou]

I haven't bought a "new" item of clothing, aside from underwear and the occasional pair of shoes, in nearly twenty years. I make my own clothes. When they get worn, I repair them. When my shoes wear thru I have them resoled and reheeled and keep wearing them. More people should do that. More people should realize they *do* have a choice not to go along with consumer culture, they don't have to be led around by the credit card to spend money they don't have on things they don't need. And every time I sit down at the sewing machine I'm happily thumbing my nose at the Boys From Marketing. They can keep their Bangladeshi sweatshops and their trendy disposable junk for some other pigeon.

For what it's worth, I'm with you 110% on not supporting sweatshops and other misanthropic business practices. For most things, it's possible to select a local, small company to support. I do this when I can. It makes me feel good. I don't do this on clothes, mostly because I don't know of any small, social justice minded clothes makers, and never thought to look any up. I'm really big on fair business practices. It's why I'm doing what I do in life. Everyone needs a cause, I guess. I'll see what google recommends for the person who can't sew worth a damn but doesn't want to support child slavery.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Opinions about clothing are indeed all relative. And we're back in straw man territory again.

Why do you disagree with it though? If you suggest that everything is relative, then by that logic Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel has the same artistic value as a child's finger painting.

 

[Son_of_Atropos]

Can't form an argument? Keep dodging the question, Kurtz.

 

[MikeBravo]

and maybe not call them "chicks"

I have no problem with "Chicks". It is the term young women nowadays use to refer to themselves and other young women. It has changed since the 60's

Oh, and these are yoga pants:

 

[Pompidou]

Can't form an argument? Keep dodging the question, Kurtz.

He's not dodging your question. Saying one thing is relative doesn't imply everything is relative. You like your suits, and naturally, if you like it, it's superiority is natural, a scientific fact. There's no debate. Whatever you wear is superior to whatever others wear. that said, it's got nothing at all to do with paintings. The real argument here is, who would dare question Atropos' opinion?

 

[Baron Kurtz]

The question was which? Oh right, "Why do you disagree with it?" I actually agree with your opinion on the relative aesthetics of *well cut* suits vs jeans and T-shirts, to some extent. I disagree, however, that this opinion is fact. There is no argument here. Semantics are boring, I know, but that's no reason for Aunt Sally to enter the room. Where we do argue is in the importance of our opinions. (you clearly think yours are important to others as you imagine that they are "fact")

*note the suit must be well cut. A badly fitting suit, of substandard materials, is by far and away, in my opinion, worse looking than jeans and a T-shirt

Can't form an argument? Keep dodging the question, Kurtz.

I'm afraid I don't "get" art, and I don't have any bank loans, so I can't address either of your straw men with any real insight.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Personally I just avoid Wally-World as much as I can and that makes it easier to avoid seeing people dressed like idiots for the most part

I really think it should be mandatory for everyone to have a full length mirror and even better would be a three way mirror. Maybe that would cut down on the scariness.

Agreed!

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Interesting how we all complain about the judgment and "looks" we get for wearing vintage, yet we have no problem judging what others wear.

To me, "judgement" would imply condemnation of the person, or deciding if they are innocent or guilty of a sinful transgression. Perhaps a more accurate term would be "assessment" which means some people have opinions about articles of clothing and not the people wearing them.

Having said that, I pass judgement on yoga pants, and not the girls/women who wear them, simply because they are UNHEALTHY. You don't have to be an OBGYN to know that tight-fitting garments made of synthetic fibers no less is, well, maybe Monistat is behind the new trend.

 

[LizzieMaine]

You don't have to be an OBGYN to know that tight-fitting garments made of synthetic fibers no less is, well, maybe Monistat is behind the new trend.

Hence the expression, "Yeasty Buns."

 

[Son_of_Atropos]

He's not dodging your question. Saying one thing is relative doesn't imply everything is relative. You like your suits, and naturally, if you like it, it's superiority is natural, a scientific fact. There's no debate. Whatever you wear is superior to whatever others wear. that said, it's got nothing at all to do with paintings. The real argument here is, who would dare question Atropos' opinion?

I'm afraid I don't "get" art, and I don't have any bank loans, so I can't address either of your straw men with any real insight.

No, no, no. The real argument isn't "Who would dare question my opinion." Where did you get that?

The real argument is presenting baseless arguments/conclusions. People can wear whatever they want because freedom is good. Ok. Why? How do you support your conclusion? Can you support your conclusion? (This was what Baron Kurtz argued, not you, Pompidou.)

"Saying one thing is relative doesn't imply everything is relative." So. People can wear whatever they want; there is no such thing as good clothing or bad clothing. Ok. But where do you draw the line? So there is no such thing as a good movie or a bad movie? There is no such thing as good art or bad art. There is no such thing as good music or bad music? There is no such thing as good people or bad people? Why does clothing operate in this special no judgment area? Because you say it does?

So people cannot draw any conclusions from their observations? What facts do you want? Polling data? A scientific experiment? Experts?

Baron Kurtz, you attack my argument but fail to present any basis for your counter-argument. You begrudgingly agree with part of the argument. But conclude that 1. I merely presented an opinion because I don't have any facts and 2. all opinions are the same. So why did you bring up the straw men?

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Hence the expression, "Yeasty Buns."

:eeek:

 

[DJH]

Wear what you like and let others wear what they like.

That's exactly my thought as well. What other people wear is really non of my business.