The Wifely Duties

[JustJen]

Atomic Blonde~ just re-read my posting and I promise I wasn't taking offense to your prior post so please don't take offense to mine. Just wanted to get a different (and quite apparently in the minority) viewpoint out there.

 

[The Wolf]

my situation

Early on with our children my wife stayed home and I went to work. My wife recently graduated from Nursing School and got a job at a hospital. One of us has always been home with our sons. My wife works full-time and I've adjusted my schedule to work around hers.
I might quit and become a househusband. I could still play cards with the boys and I'm sure my wife would give me enough money for nice suits and hats.

The Wolf

 

[scotrace]

Househusband

A very good friend of mine had a fine career based on a good degree. He had a huge future ahead. But when his wife accepted a job in another city that was VERY fast-track with a major bank, they moved and he became a stay at home dad. His own father was unglued by it (WW2 vet). But it has worked well for him and their two daughters for ten years now. He resented the arrangment only when the girls began having monthly cycles and wanted to choose makeup. He was rather clueless.
It has worked well for their family. I'd have no problem doing that.

My parents both worked and I was a latch-key as long as I remember.

 

[AtomicBlonde]

Atomic Blonde~ just re-read my posting and I promise I wasn't taking offense to your prior post so please don't take offense to mine. Just wanted to get a different (and quite apparently in the minority) viewpoint out there.

Its ok, and I understand. I'm not trying to start an argument or tick anyone off. This is just a subject I feel very strongly about, and I understand that others might feel differently. Differences in opinions are quite alright.

I understand that some women simply CANT stay home. However, studies have shown that children who were placed in daycare since infancy learn to talk and walk at a slower rate, and have a higher likelihood of childhood depression and behavioral probelms. Even the best daycare centers are below what they *should* be for childcare. Parents may think that your children are getting great one on one attention in daycare centers, and even if you get to sit in on a day... nine times out of ten, the center is putting its best face forward until you're gone. Like I said before, I worked at 2 high end daycare centers where when moms and dads were present, everything looked pristine and great.... once they were gone everything was different. Children werent supervised as well as they should be, daycare workers yelled at the children, I even knew a couple teachers who would spank the kids if they were bad... and I saw one drag a crying child down the hall by one arm. I had to quit. There is just no way that with a teacher child ratio of 1:5 (or more, depending on the age of the children) that each child can get indivual attention and have his or her developmental needs met. I really suggest anyone who puts their children in daycare or is considering it to read "Daycare Deception: what the childcare establishment isnt telling us."

I just think its wrong to put your kids into childcare if you dont have to. I understand that others might not feel the same way as I do, and thats fine. I guess this is just a subject that I have some really strong convictions about so thats why I said something.

-Jess

 

[Salv]

Children werent supervised as well as they should be, daycare workers yelled at the children, I even knew a couple teachers who would spank the kids if they were bad... and I saw one drag a crying child down the hall by one arm.
...
-Jess

That kind of treatment isn't exclusive to day care centres. I've seen plenty of parents - both here in the UK and in the US - doing exactly what you have described to their children. Are there any studies into the effects of such behaviour on those children?

 

[ProperRogue]

Just out of curiosity, is there any reason that it would be better to have a stay -at-home mom instead of a stay-at-home dad? If we take it as a given that children are better off with one parent at home, is it necessarily the woman's role to be that parent?



BV - again, not snarking. Just genuinely asking because I don't spend a lot of time with people who have different opinions/experiences than I.

Stay at home dad? I would love to spend the day at home playing with my two kids...I just wouldn't want to do all of the other work my stay-at-home wife does. That is more work then I am willing to do!

 

[ProperRogue]

*************
Not to point at you Nick, BUT Perhaps this type of question illuminates a view point of the modern age in which there seems to be also several generations that simply cannot do without every possible convienience. In comparison my parents generations did with out a lot to make sure the kids were clothed, fed, had a roof over our heads, brought up correctly and schooled well.

Nowadays, couples will put off having children so they can have the cool house, the big screen tv / entertainment center and the 2 new BMW's. They prefer the party sceen to resposibility of raising children. What about the sserious keeping up with the Joneses type needs. Fastest laptop, newest cell phones, Iposds, Computers, music, trips to Cabo and Vale? This is serious cash.

Perhaps taxes are too high to allow a one income home, but I think it is also based on the expectations of lifestyle.

I agree...Not to long ago, after being married 12 years with no kids, I was ready to purchase my wife her dream car - a Porsche 911 - and she became pregnant. (Notice I didn't say we got pregnant - I realize who is doing all of the really hard work here! ) Anyways, we now have two wonderful children. Every once and a while I will catch my wife looking longingly at another 911. When I ask her about it, she always replies maybe someday, but that she is more satisfied and happy with our two little holigans then she ever would have been with a car.

PR

 

[mysterygal]

I agree, the material things pale in comparison to imparting valuable morals and time into your children. As far as Marcs question about working after kids are grown up...I have already planned to work part time while the kids are all in school to help out with school....private school is NOT cheap! But it is something we feel is important for them. I love having a job, making my own money, there's a satisfaction in it and even though I know I am doing my job at home, it makes me feel good being able to help my husband out with some of the expenses.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

That's an interesting point. How do the stay at home mothers feel about being beholden to the man for EVERYthing that costs money? (personally i would hate to rely on someone else for all my material needs.) And does it cause friction when she wishes to treat herself with HIS hard earned money? I imagine it could with a more money-obsessed man ...

just wondrin'

bk

 

[JustJen]

Originally posted by Atomic Blonde

I understand that some women simply CANT stay home. However, studies have shown that children who were placed in daycare since infancy learn to talk and walk at a slower rate, and have a higher likelihood of childhood depression and behavioral probelms. Even the best daycare centers are below what they *should* be for childcare. Parents may think that your children are getting great one on one attention in daycare centers, and even if you get to sit in on a day... nine times out of ten, the center is putting its best face forward until you're gone. Like I said before, I worked at 2 high end daycare centers where when moms and dads were present, everything looked pristine and great.... once they were gone everything was different. Children werent supervised as well as they should be, daycare workers yelled at the children, I even knew a couple teachers who would spank the kids if they were bad... and I saw one drag a crying child down the hall by one arm. I had to quit. There is just no way that with a teacher child ratio of 1:5 (or more, depending on the age of the children) that each child can get indivual attention and have his or her developmental needs met. I really suggest anyone who puts their children in daycare or is considering it to read "Daycare Deception: what the childcare establishment isnt telling us." .

I will look for the book and I think it will make for an interesting read. I too worked at daycares while in college. I've seen some of the behavior you mention, with the exception of spanking- I've never seen that. I'd end up going to jail if I did (we spank in our home as a last resort but no one, not even my mother spanks our kids. We find other disciplinary actions have much better effect).

In our neighborhood, stay at home moms are the norm. And I think they have the hardest job in the world. Being with your own children 24 x 7 really is so tough. It takes a lot of discipline and scheduling to keep your own kids and interact with them while you're trying to maintain a household. Around here, it's a privilege to get to stay home, not a scarlet letter.

Our house backs up to a Children's Courtyard daycare although this isn't where my kids go (my oldest did at one point but we took him out when his teacher decided to quit. She ended up keeping him for 2 years). I can hear the younger kids outside with their teachers when I go outside to smoke. They don't know I'm there and I always listen to their interactions. Frankly, they're very tender with those kids. I'm impressed with how they treat them. I don't get to see how they are indoors but if it's at all like it is outside, those kids are really well cared for. But you're right in that it in no way replaces a mother. I don't view daycare as a replacement for me or my husband. I look at it as a time for my kids to interact with other peers and learn to respect and deal with adults other than myself or my husband.

And rarely, you get hold of a daycare that has little to no turnover and they end up becoming extended family. All of the women who work at our daycare with children have them there. They're certainly not there to make money. I firmly believe these women have a special calling. We are very lucky to have found them. This daycare isn't high end, they don't have brand new equipment or fancy digs. We are very lucky to have found them.

I am the product of divorced parents, a working mom, and was a latch key kid. I've been married longer than my parents and I know what bad and good daycare looks and feels like from the viewpoint of a child. But I've turned out quite good I think. Perhaps reading the book you mention will give me new insight.

I am curious about your thoughts on public/private schooling. Our kids are there for 8 hours a day, in the hands of another individual. Do you have the same concerns? I know numerous teaching professionals in both public and private schools (and I'm certainly not insinuating that it's the norm. The majority of the teachers I know are fine role models). If people knew how racist some of them are or some of the things they do in their private time, they would flip their lid.

I think it's fabulous that you've already made your decision at such a young age. Stick to your guns and make it happen.

Jen

 

[AtomicBlonde]

I am curious about your thoughts on public/private schooling. Our kids are there for 8 hours a day, in the hands of another individual. Do you have the same concerns?
Jen

No, I dont have the same concerns regarding public/private schools. What I'm talking about is early childhood. I'm talking about the kids who are put in daycare starting at 6 weeks. Those first few years are very important to a childs development... I wouldnt want someone else taking care of my kids in those first few critical years.
I was homeschooled the last half of my education, and I think I'm better for it. My sister went to private school. (she wasnt very good at being a self learner, and she was also a social butterfly... it was really important for her to have lots of social interaction, whereas I was content doing stuff on my own... so my parents just adjusted to our needs.)
I have no faith in the current state of the American public education system, and wouldnt put my kids through that. My kids will go to a private school, or if a suitable one isnt found in my area, they'll be homeschooled. My time spent in public school was a miserable experience. Disrespectful students, drugs, fighting. And this was in a small town highschool. Sorry, that was really fftopic:

-Jess

 

[Irena]

I'd be all for it, but who can actually have a house, 2 cars, kids and only one income???? Heck I stay home and let my wife win the money.:eusa_clap

My mother is a stay-at-home mom for my brother and me, my father doesn't make much money, we own a farm (though we don't live there, we rent neareer his job), we have three cars with insurance (six if you count the utility and project cars without insurance),we've always had an RV (not too small, either), and we eat better than most people with much more money than us.

You don't need much money to live well. We've never had a television, but we have never missed it. We have home-cooked, sit-down meals all the time, and we cut our own firewood for heat.

By the way, I'm now 18 and my brother is 15.

Irena.

p.s. Mom plans to work after both of us graduate from high-school.

 

[mysterygal]

public school have gone downhill moral wise and educationally speaking. Home schooling just isn't for me...I'm way too busy with my other two girls to give my oldest my total undivided attention at this point. The private school my daughter goes to instills good Christian values and on the scale nation wise, probably due to the smaller classes, the kids score higher than public school academically.
To what the Baron asked about money...yes it does cause some friction, that's why I like having my side jobs.

 

[jamespowers]

Oh geez, public schools what a mess. Smaller class sizes do not make a difference, brand new facilities do not make a difference and money put into it by the ton doesn't make a difference. Why? Because they have severe structural problems that they are not willing to deal with such as a poor cirriculum, no cost accountability, no performance based accountability showing up in salary and likely a school board that is unresponsive.
If you think this is a fantasy, then check out the Sausalito School District in California. They spend over $24,000 per student, classes are small, all teachers are credentialed, the average teacher salary is $70,000 per year and are they producing geniuses? NO! Their test scores are horrible and the children have huge behavior problems.
Until public schools are willing to concentrate on the necessary subjects, discipline and cost accountability, all they are good for is creating jobs for teachers. At least that is the way it is here. It may be different in other areas of the country but the Kansas City School District is another shining example of a mess created with the thought that money equals knowledge and better schools. I can elaborate on that case if necessary but this is getting a little far off topic as it is.
Put me in the Private School Only category for my area of the country. This is coming from a public school graduate when it was on its way down.

Regards,

J

 

[JustJen]

originally posted by Atomic Blonde
I have no faith in the current state of the American public education system, and wouldnt put my kids through that.

fftopic: I agree with you on this one. In Texas, we have the worst public school system-we can't even figure out how to pay for it. While I don't have the skillset to home school my kids, we haven't decided whether to send our kids to private schools once they reach 6th grade. Our school district is very rich and the elementary school my son attends is exceptional. Especially since it has the most economically diverse student body in the school district and produces test results on par with private schools.

I am quite firm in my belief that my kids will go to a private school. My husband, who works for a local school district, is not so convinced. He still has faith that there's redeeming qualities in public education.

 

[VintageJess]

That's an interesting point. How do the stay at home mothers feel about being beholden to the man for EVERYthing that costs money? (personally i would hate to rely on someone else for all my material needs.) And does it cause friction when she wishes to treat herself with HIS hard earned money? I imagine it could with a more money-obsessed man ...

just wondrin'

bk

Baron,

I guess it's all in how you look at it and what kind of marital relationship that you have. I am very fortunate in that my husband never, ever points out that it is HIS money. We view this as a team effort--trying to raise our family and be good citizens. His part just happens to be away from the home and he is paid for it. Whereas, I provide other services to our family (with childcare, cooking, cleaning, etc.) that save us money on having to pay someone else to do it.

In fact, I do the budgeting, bill paying, and pretty much everything else financial in our house. For one, I have always been good with money and budgeting and my husband hates it, so that works for us. Also, we've always feel that is a better situation considering my husband's line of work . That way, if he is out in the field or deployed, we never have to worry about a bill being late or things like that.

But we really view it as OUR money. I guess a lot of that may go back to the fact that we are a military family and we strongly believe that even though he is the actual U.S. Marine, our whole family serves. I think any military member will tell you that they couldn't do what they do without their family support. So I guess we just see it as this is OUR job.

And my husband really respects the work that I do here at home. I have to say that I've worked very hard to make our home and family run in an efficient manner. I have daily, weekly and monthly schedules and I stick to them pretty well. I like things to be organized and non-hectic. Dinner is ready each night and I try to have at least one homemade treat (cake, cookies, etc.) to snack on during the week. Most housework and chores are done during the day and week so that we have our nights and weekends to spend time as a family. I also plan learning activities and physical activities for our son. I work just as hard at this as I have at any job, because I really do see it as a my "job" or calling right now. I enjoy making our home a safe, peaceful haven for my family.

Jessica

 

[Lena_Horne]

fftopic: I agree with you on this one. In Texas, we have the worst public school system-we can't even figure out how to pay for it. While I don't have the skillset to home school my kids, we haven't decided whether to send our kids to private schools once they reach 6th grade. Our school district is very rich and the elementary school my son attends is exceptional. Especially since it has the most economically diverse student body in the school district and produces test results on par with private schools.

I am quite firm in my belief that my kids will go to a private school. My husband, who works for a local school district, is not so convinced. He still has faith that there's redeeming qualities in public education.

Hm. We've had different experiences. I attended the ALIEF district schools in Texas during the early to late nineties and received some of the best education of my life outside of the exclusive and private sectors. I went to Michael Kennedy elementary (where I had problems in math due to my old school's focus on foreign languages [this was in Detroit though]) but by the time I got to Klentzman Intermediate School I was in the accelerated courses and taking wonderful classes in Eco-Science and Art. Then my family moved back to Michigan and I was placed in a public school that had great teachers but terrible students. The move was somewhat dramatic for me and my grades didn't improve again until I got to the eighth grade. Then I entered High School and it was hit or miss. One year I'm on the honor roll, the next I'm failing. Back and forth. By the time I started attending CASA (center for the advanced studies and the arts) I was only performing in certain classes and bored out of my mind in others. I did well at CASA which offered afternoon courses and I was able to take AP which was no longer offered at my "home" school. My AP English teacher identified one of my problems: that I wasn't used to working hard and slowly I pulled my grade up from "abysmal" to an A minus by February. I couldn't have been more proud.

So I guess it depends on the atmosphere as well as a wealth of other factors. Something many public schools no longer require is accountability and or performance standards. CASA was a priviledge and I had to earn my right to go there even though it was a public school albeit a much smaller one. All in all though I rank it with Klentzman as a wonderful school and I'm glad I was fortunate enough to attend, I know there are millions of students that don't have the same opportunity.

Sorry for riding the off-topic train,

L_H

 

[The Wolf]

private/public schools tied into home with the kids

My kids go to a public school because these are the same people and problems they'll face outside of school. However my wife and I have both volunteered in the classes, we talk to the teachers and principal regularly so they know we are involved and interested in our childrens academics. That actually seems different than a lot of the parents.
We pick up the kids at class so the students know us. My wife and I help teach in the home also so they had a head start for school and their grades have been very good. We started with the McGuffey's Readers.
Involvement with ones children is the key to all of this.
My wife or I have always been at home as the kids grow so we get to see their firsts (first steps, first words, first catch, etc.) and we don't rely on the school system or worse the television to raise our children. We brought them into the world they are now our responsibilty to raise and form.

Sincerely,
The Wolf

 

[Nora Charles]

Oh geez, public schools what a mess. Smaller class sizes do not make a difference, brand new facilities do not make a difference and money put into it by the ton doesn't make a difference. Why? Because they have severe structural problems that they are not willing to deal with such as a poor cirriculum, no cost accountability, no performance based accountability showing up in salary and likely a school board that is unresponsive.
If you think this is a fantasy, then check out the Sausalito School District in California. They spend over $24,000 per student, classes are small, all teachers are credentialed, the average teacher salary is $70,000 per year and are they producing geniuses? NO! Their test scores are horrible and the children have huge behavior problems.
Until public schools are willing to concentrate on the necessary subjects, discipline and cost accountability, all they are good for is creating jobs for teachers. At least that is the way it is here. It may be different in other areas of the country but the Kansas City School District is another shining example of a mess created with the thought that money equals knowledge and better schools. I can elaborate on that case if necessary but this is getting a little far off topic as it is.
Put me in the Private School Only category for my area of the country. This is coming from a public school graduate when it was on its way down.

Regards,

J

I am a public school teacher. I don't agree that smaller class sizes would not make a difference. I am responsible for over 30 students. That means teaching them the essential skills that they need to know to be productive members of society. I have almost NO parental support (Thank you Wolf, I wish all parents were like you!) and yet am held ENTIRELY accountable for their successes. My salary IS based on their performance and so is my contract. But due to the lack of parenting I experience, I am not only a student's teacher of academics, but of morality, manners, etc...times 30. Therefore, smaller classes, and more money WOULD allow me to get close to producing those "geniuses" you are looking for. I work really hard each year to give students every opportunity they deserve. I think teachers have been given a bad reputation by people who think it is so easy to teach. Every successful business person I have had in my class says they wouldn't trade places with me for anything. It makes my job even harder (and breaks my spirit) to have to defend my profession, but I will with every student that I see learn and succeed. We're not all bad...

 

[John in Covina]

Parents who don't prepare their children for school, for being polite and social, for life, don't do anyone any favors, not ever their children, not even themselves.