The Vintage Tailoring Thread

[Fletch]

I completely sympathize with the snickers at the wife who sews putting together a tailored piece....menswear has been a complete revelation! canvas and melton and pad-stitch-oh-my!!

Remember the old double standard...making women's clothes was a home craft, but making men's was an industry! In comparison to dresses, suits have to fit like gloves and wear like iron.

 

[Nick D]

You can get good pads (not foam) fairly easily, but I've made them with cotton batting and a bit of canvas. The makeup of the sleeve head wadding depends on the look you're after. I don't use any canvas, just wadding, which works fine.

Xandra showed me the Weldon's double-breasted pattern, I'm really excited about it! I've already got a few outfits planned. I've got the single-breasted version of that pattern, as well as their waistcoat pattern, so with those and the EvaDress trousers as a base I can make an awful lot of outfits.

Gentlemen

What are you doing for your sleeve heads? Commercial shoulder pads? Sleeve head wadding? I've had a pleated belt back well underway for ages....feeling inspired to finish it out!

I completely sympathize with the snickers at the wife who sews putting together a tailored piece....menswear has been a complete revelation! canvas and melton and pad-stitch-oh-my!!

Thanks fellas!

As a side note....I'm so happy to see the Evadress menswear patterns being used by so many! Many of the original patterns came from my personal collection which Xandra at Evadress tolled to put out for public sale. We were emailing this week that she will be putting out a new peaked lapel jacket from my collection shortly!!

Honey Doll
a/k/a Lady Eve
http://www.etsy.com/shop/LadyEveMillinery?ref=si_shop

 

[Honey Doll]

Nick

Are you the gentleman in Leeds she told me about? Lovely to *meet* you...and ever so glad you are enjoying the patterns. The 1940s trousers, the 1940s belt waist jacket (waist length) and the belt-back jacket are from my collection as well.

Thanks for the input. I've decided this is one project that requires completion.

Honey Doll
a/k/a Lady Eve
http://www.etsy.com/shop/LadyEveMillinery?ref=si_shop

 

[Nick D]

Yes, that would be me . I've put up pictures of a lot of the things I've made from those patterns up in the Gents' Show us what you've made thread, especially the 40s trousers. I just found some fantastic wool, about 16oz, that is the exact colour and pattern as the artwork on the original pattern.

 

[Qirrel]

How to use old/vintage "crooked neckpoint" drafts.

Many of the cutting systems available online (at for example Archive.org), are systems that operate with a "crooked neckpoint" (see explanation a few pages back), which enables the tailor to do ironwork to the front and armscye for a shapely fit in the shoulder and chest. This method has largely been abandoned in modern tailoring, because the tightly woven, lightweight cloths commonly used cannot take the required amount of stretching and shrinking.

Below i will describe a method which determines the amount of cloth that needs to be taken out in a dart or shrunk away in order to get a good fit. It can also be used to convert crooked neckpoint patterns to neutral neckpoint patterns, which are required for fabrics that are difficult/impossible to manipulate with the iron.

First, draft the pattern of your choice. I have used a version of the Cutter's Practical Guide from 1912, which is essentially the same as the late 1890s version available on the internet.

Place a square with the long arm on the chest construction line and the other arm touching the front of the armscye. Mark off on the long arm (on the chest line) 1/10 of the chest measure used in drafting the pattern. Then mark two straight lines, one from the scye and one from either the gorge or from the front edge, toward a point on the chest line (e.g. the 1/10 chest mark).:

Now cut through the lines almost all the way to the chest line (you want the piece to remain attached to the rest of the pattern.), then place one arm of the square on the chest line so that the other arm creates a line perpendicular to the chest line. Adjust so that the line comes up from the 1/10 chest mark. In the picture below, the 1/10 mark lies at "0" on my square.

Move the pattern piece in the direction of the red arrow until the neckpoint hits the arm of the square. This is the "neutral" 1/10 chest neckpoint position.

The amount of overlap at the cut in the gorge/front edge is the amount which needs to be removed in making. On period correct fabrics, it can be shrunk away along the lapel edge. The other option is to take it out in a dart.

To make a neutral neckpoint pattern, simply tape the overlap down, and trace around the pattern to make a new one. (You will need to redraw the gorge/lapel and the scye.):

To be continued with some info on the actual making up of a croocked cut jacket.

 

[herringbonekid]

Hart Schaffner and Marx then:

and now:

 

[Two Types]

I have a question for you:

I sometimes see American suits that would fit me, but reject them on the grounds that a like forward facing pleats on my trousers and not the American style pleats. Is it a simple job for the pleats to be re-tailored to face forward? Or does the way they are cut differ and mean that the trousers may not hang right afterwards?

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Even if the pleats are reversed, you'll find that American trousers tend not to be as full cut (seat, thighs) as their European counterparts.[huh]

 

[herringbonekid]

TT, you'd have to unpick the waistband (and waistband lining), turn the pleat around and re-sew it, but it should be fine and shouldn't effect the hang.
only thing that could go wrong is if the fabric has faded at all and exposes a dark bit behind the pleat; unlikely though.

 

[Two Types]

Thanks. That's what i thought. I hadn't thought about fading but, if worn with the jacket, the top of the trousers would be covered anyway. So that isn't a problem.

 

[herringbonekid]

anyone know what this fabric is that is often used for vintage labels ?
it appears to be cotton but with a crispy, coated finish a bit like Holland linen:

i haven't been able to find the proper term for it (or find any for sale).

 

[Fastuni]

I thought it's "waxed cotton", no?

 

[herringbonekid]

not sure Fastuni. waxed cotton, at least in the UK, tends to mean the stuff Barbours are made from, but it might have a separate meaning.

i also have a vague memory of someone telling me it was 'oilcloth', but oilcloth searches only bring up the heavily vinyl coated stuff they use for cheap cafe tablecloths !

 

[ColeV48]

I finished my second "modern" suit this January (I usually work on 18th century styles). It's a 1920s style tailcoat suit for my husband. He's hard to fit with broad shoulders. There's a lot I want to finesse in terms of fitting on my next attempt, mainly to keep working on the shoulders and back. He only seems to stand this straight for pictures and fittings, so if I fit the back to that it pulls or if I fit the back to him standing normally it looks awful in pictures! I'm accustomed to making entire suits by hand-sewing, so the only machined parts of this are the long interior seams. Though I did make the vest almost entirely by machine which definitely felt like cheating.

 

[Nick D]

Very good, even with the fit issues you've mentioned. Tailcoats have a reputation for being the hardest thing to fit. The meeting of the jacket and waistcoat hems is particularly nice. I wouldn't worry too much about machining the waistcoat, it's period correct though hand sewing certain parts was more common then. I'm thinking I might make a morning coat down the road.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

It's certainly not oilcloth. At least the military ones, when they start to degrade, they give the impression of being a loosely woven cotton or linen covered or impregnated with a paper-like substance. The American union labels I'm pretty sure are just rough grade linen or cotton.

not sure Fastuni. waxed cotton, at least in the UK, tends to mean the stuff Barbours are made from, but it might have a separate meaning.

i also have a vague memory of someone telling me it was 'oilcloth', but oilcloth searches only bring up the heavily vinyl coated stuff they use for cheap cafe tablecloths !

 

[herringbonekid]

decided to try frog mouth pockets on my most recent suit. i like them for a change, but they're not as easy to slip your
hands into.

 

[Fastuni]

Great work again!

A question though: is this an elastic waistband? Were they already in use during the 20's (which seem to be your inspiration here)?

 

[herringbonekid]

no, don't worry Fastuni, i'd never use an elastic waistband. horrible stuff !
it's basically a big roll of fancy cotton tape. i wouldn't have even known what it was until i saw it in some vintage French trousers (will post a pic soon).

more shots of the suit here:

http://laurencejohn.blogspot.co.uk/

 

[herringbonekid]

here we go:

this is a pair of 30s-40s French orphaned suit trousers, although you mainly see the waistband tape used in workwear.
if i was doing a 'dressy' suit i wouldn't use it, but for tough tweed or workwear i like it.


more, used in the 20s mini-herringbone suit:

i imagine there are endless varieties of design in this stuff.


and the roll itself: