The Vintage Suitor

[Viola]

That's sexism. And God knows there are many men asking out women for less than honourable intentions.

True. I even agree with you that a woman should be able to, I was just answering a query as to how it could make somebody feel uncomfortable. You asked "why on earth..." well, that, unfortunately, is why.

I've asked out guys before, though.

-Viola

 

[Classydame]

I once was asked by a guy...he was so nervous he was shaking. But I was very touched and said yes. I thought it was so brave!

Have you heard of that book "He's Not that Into You". It was a pretty fun read. In it the author says that a guy should do the asking just because it proves they are really interested. And I really would be flattered if I were asked. I don't mean to say that I take the book too seriously. I think people should do what they are comfortable with!

And on the topic of flowers...I love them. I don't care if it is a first date or not. I love getting them.

I also agree with the a few of the other ladies. He must be kind to others no matter their standing...I watch for those things. And if he makes me laugh and helps me on with my coat; it is a big plus!

Shellie

 

[Jovan]

The author should know it works vice-versa! I have been not necessarily asked out, but approached by someone who was interested in me. I appreciated the gesture. It unfortunately didn't last long since we were so diametrically opposed to everything the other stood for*... but that little anecdote shouldn't be a reason to not take a chance.

*Ironically, it was she who had the less than honourable intentions, but I can't go into it since it's not G rated.

 

[pretty faythe]

I have to admit this shy lil girl has worked up the nerves a few time to approach a few guys and ask them out, with all intention to be the one to pay for the date. I guess the guys must have been old fashioned at heart even though they accepted the invites, they paid for the tabs.

 

[Paisley]

Even Emily Post, in the 1940 edition of "Etiquette," said that a girl can ask out a man, along the lines of "I have some movie tickets; would you like to go Friday night?" It's probably OK if they guy is just too shy or awkward to ask her.

But if he says yes, you're going out with a guy who is shy and awkward. Some men just take awhile to warm up, but others are insecure, and still others have few social skills. I don't happen to have a lot of use for the second two: I don't want to know someone who is an emotional black hole, and a man my age is old enough to know how to keep his foot out of his mouth.

 

[Jack Scorpion]

But if he says yes, you're going out with a guy who is shy and awkward. Some men just take awhile to warm up, but others are insecure, and still others have few social skills. I don't happen to have a lot of use for the second two: I don't want to know someone who is an emotional black hole, and a man my age is old enough to know how to keep his foot out of his mouth.

Hence, I am single. Although I think "emotional black hole" is a little harsh.

How about secret admirer letters? Are those still in vogue??

 

[Paisley]

Point taken.

Secret admirer letters sound very sweet, but as for me, I'd prefer a more direct approach. Besides, what if you don't live up to the image she builds up when she reads the letters? What if she assumes they're from somebody else?

 

[Jack Scorpion]

A little off track, but I happen to know how both my grandparents met and how my parents met, so I'll share. Especially when it comes to my grandparents, it really makes you think on what a "vintage suitor" really is.

All 4 of my grandparents are immigrants, so that changes everything. One of my grandparents was invited to the family house of one of his bosses at his engineering job. He met Mary, the boss's daughter, and things were sweet, but nothing took off. He was like 26 and she was like 20. Over time, my grandfather's boss invited him over more and more often. Each time, he and Mary got a little sweeter. Finally, the boss pressured my grandfather into taking it into his own hands.

My other grandparents are Jewish and my grandfather is one of eight brothers. Well, them Jewish ladies got together and decided to fix up my grandfather's oldest brother with a nice Jewish girl. Done, except they didn't really hit it off. She became closer to the younger brother, who just got back from the war, my grandfather. No hard feelings and the set-up was switched seamlessly.

My dad visited friends in LA. He wanted to go to Disneyland. He asked his friends for directions. They didn't know. They said to ask the girls next door how to get there. My dad did. The next door neighbors, my mom and her friends, gave directions and had nothing better to do that day, so the group went together. Yatta yatta yatta.

 

[Viola]

I only know the story of my grandparents on my mom's side.

They met at a synagogue dance.

My grandfather looked at her from across the room, and then pointed her out to his friend and said "See that girl? I'm gonna marry her." There were witnesses who would attest to this.

A few months later, he did.

-Viola

 

[Jovan]

Even Emily Post, in the 1940 edition of "Etiquette," said that a girl can ask out a man, along the lines of "I have some movie tickets; would you like to go Friday night?" It's probably OK if they guy is just too shy or awkward to ask her.

But if he says yes, you're going out with a guy who is shy and awkward. Some men just take awhile to warm up, but others are insecure, and still others have few social skills. I don't happen to have a lot of use for the second two: I don't want to know someone who is an emotional black hole, and a man my age is old enough to know how to keep his foot out of his mouth.

I'm not quite certain how this doesn't go the other way.

 

[Paisley]

Women are typically a lot more interested in having a relationship than men are. Just look at all the relationship books and seminars out there: they're read and attended by women. Look at a wedding: it's about the bride. Consider the marriage contract: it protects the woman more than the man. The household: husbands tend to admit to being the junior partner. The kids: usually taken care of around 90% by mom.

But let's say a woman assertively pursues a man: asks him out, does most of the planning, and keeps the relationship going. Is the man doing any pursuing? If he isn't, there's a good chance that she's looking to get married, but he's just along for the ride.

Now let's say they move in together. Now he has someone to share the bills, share his bed, cook his meals and clean his house. He has all the benefits of a wife with none of the obligations and no commitment. What a great deal--for him!

I know that different things work for different people, but in general I think it's better wait for a man who is interested enough in a relationship to put some starch in his spine and ask for a date.

 

[Diamondback]

Women are typically a lot more interested in having a relationship than men are. Just look at all the relationship books and seminars out there: they're read and attended by women. Look at a wedding: it's about the bride.

So where does that leave a guy who's looking for a deep, serious relationship but has no idea how to proceed? I don't think "Relationships for Dummies" would cut it for a total Poindexter, or worse someone who's spent most of his life a recluse...

'Course, we all know I'm damaged-goods anywaylol , so that may just be my own personal problem only.

 

[Viola]

Now let's say they move in together. Now he has someone to share the bills, share his bed, cook his meals and clean his house. He has all the benefits of a wife with none of the obligations and no commitment. What a great deal--for him!

I dunno how to say this and have it sound right, but some of that stuff (bills and beds should NOT be in that close a proximity, but okay...) sounds like it a good deal for BOTH parties if done correctly.

And I don't mind cooking if he doesn't mind a lot of rare meat and things in the pasta family.

-Viola

 

[Diamondback]

And I don't mind cooking if he doesn't mind a lot of rare meat and things in the pasta family.

Guess it's a good thing I know how to cook, then--the downside is I can't do anything below medium-well. (My usual taste in meats is "burnt 'til it's crunchy."lol) OTOH, I love pasta... even though it's technically something I shouldn't have (all those carbs).

 

[Viola]

Guess it's a good thing I know how to cook, then--the downside is I can't do anything below medium-well. (My usual taste in meats is "burnt 'til it's crunchy."lol) OTOH, I love pasta... even though it's technically something I shouldn't have (all those carbs).

Meat isn't supposed to crunch, its supposed to MOO. lol

Yeah, it isn't even kosher that way...but... that's how it tastes good.

-Viola

 

[Diamondback]

Meat isn't supposed to crunch, its supposed to MOO. lol

Yeah, it isn't even kosher that way...but... that's how it tastes good.

It's only supposed to "moo" while it's still on the hoof, though! Bear in mind, I'm also from the area where we had that killer E. coli outbreak...

Besides, it gives me more time to play with marinades while cooking...lol

 

[Amy Jeanne]

I persued my husband via the Internet. I came home from work one day and saw 3 of his photos on my LJ Friends List because we were in communities together.

Right when I saw his photo I KNEW I was going to marry him. When I looked and saw that he lived in London (and I in NJ) that didn't stop me one bit. So I commented on his photos. Then he "added" me. I commented on every single one of his LJ posts -- he commented on all of mine.

Then we began to IM. Then email. Then the long-distance calls! We talked for 3 months before we even met face to face. I kept nudging and nudging! I was dopey in love! Luckily, he liked me, too. And now we're both in NJ, married.

There was NOTHING vintage about my courtship!! lol lol lol

 

[Paisley]

I dunno how to say this and have it sound right, but some of that stuff (bills and beds should NOT be in that close a proximity, but okay...) sounds like it a good deal for BOTH parties if done correctly.
-Viola

The problem comes up when (if) one party (typically the woman) sees this as a step towards marriage and the other party (typically the man) sees it as a means of avoiding it.

Let's say they live as if they're married, but without the paperwork. She makes a big investment in time and feeling making a home and a life. Maybe she even has children with him. But what if he decides to leave (or she does)? If the house is in his name, she doesn't have any claim to it. Nor is she entitled to alimony or any part of his investments, business or retirement plan. Any debts she incurred are hers alone. Child support: lots of studies have shown that you're likely to collect less, if any, child support if you've never been married to your kids' father. Even among married couples, promises of "you don't need to worry, I'll take care of you" go out the window during a breakup.

I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think courts will even hear cases between unmarried couples unless there are other contracts or promissory notes involved.

So she gets to start from scratch after however many years she spent with him--and he's a bachelor without a care in the world. Sure, all of this works both ways, but gender roles being what they are, that's almost always how it works out.

On the other hand, there are professional women who keep a boy-toy around without marrying him because they don't want to have to end up paying him alimony someday.

Hmmm. I'm not sure if all that quite fits your comment...

 

[Paisley]

So where does that leave a guy who's looking for a deep, serious relationship but has no idea how to proceed? I don't think "Relationships for Dummies" would cut it for a total Poindexter, or worse someone who's spent most of his life a recluse...

'Course, we all know I'm damaged-goods anywaylol , so that may just be my own personal problem only.

Talk to old people who have had long, happy marriages.

Read up on social skills and then practice them.

And don't use the term "deep, serious relationship" right off the bat. Good luck!

 

[Rica Chez]

I'm new on here and was just reading through these posts and thought I'd join in the fun...

I am not much of a shy person and have had no problems in the past with approaching a gentleman that I found attractive, however I still prefer the man to ask me out on a date. Of course, I do leave bread crumbs to let the birds know its safe for them to approach!!! lol

I do find it a turn off if the gentleman doesn't pay for the first date. I just personally don't find it makes a good first impression.

I have offered and have cleaned homes and have done other random acts of kindness for past boyfriends. However, I also find it offensive when I am asked to clean their home for them. I don't mind being asked to help out... I just get quite offended to be expected to do certain domestic-like things.

I used to think that I don't like the cheesy things done for me - such as: having poems written for me, recieving flowers, chocolates, etc. I think they're nice added bonuses if he already has a great personality and can make me laugh. In the past, I've been in relationships where the other person simply stops doing things to keep the spark going... even on special occassions. I'm a very affectionate person and have discovered that I love and perhaps maybe even need, romance. Some people may be fine with entering the comfort zone and just sitting in front of a TV and not talk to their partner, but I'm not. I like being romantic with my partner. From my past experiences, I believe that continuing to doing the "little" things for the ones you love, it speaks volumes about the person...

Okay... I think I'm done babbling now...