The Open Road Guild

[gtdean48]

Cracker, I'm getting serious hat envy at your recent acquisitions, especially as we're the same size. That one's a beauty!

:arated: & thanks for the shots of the insides!! :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[jimmy the lid]

Well, I'll pick up where I left off a few weeks ago...

Here's my simple proposition: Back in the day, I believe that "Open Road" was very much viewed as a style of Stetson lid. As collectors in the year 2010, we have all adopted a convention here on the Lounge that imposes a requirement that a Stetson actually have "Open Road" imprinted somewhere on the sweat in order to qualify as a "true" OR. But that's all it is -- a convention that we have chosen to adopt. And, in terms of collecting, it certainly isn't unreasonable to view things that way.

Walking into a hat store back in the 50's, however, if one were searching for an "Open Road," a salesman might oblige -- then offer to show you the really nice Sovereign as an upsell. The Sovereign might not say "Open Road" on it anywhere -- but, I truly don't think anyone would hesitate for a second to recognize the Sovereign as an Open Road and take the plunge if they wanted the better quality hat. In other words, the Sovereign would have been viewed as an Open Road, by salesman and purchaser alike -- despite the lack of "Open Road" printed somewhere on the sweat.

As I started to say a few weeks ago -- I think that the Stetson 100 is instructive in this regard. In 1950, Open Roads were available in a price range from $10.00 to $50.00, as seen in this 1950 national Stetson ad:

The national advertising allows us to pin down, I think, the introduction of the Stetson 100 in 1951. Here is a 1951 ad, noting that the Open Road is available in a range that now goes up to $100:

There are certainly plenty of examples of Stetson 100's in the Open Road style here on the Lounge. To my knowledge (and I have owned three personally, including one that dates to 1952 at the latest), none of these has "Open Road" appearing anywhere on the sweat. They are simply denominated "Stetson 100." So, we have national advertising noting the availability of Open Roads priced at $100 -- yet, any examples of such hats that we can find do not have "Open Road" on the sweat. Does that rule out the possibility that there were such lids? As a technical matter, no -- but I think that this scenario is rather unlikely. I think we would have seen one by now.

And suddenly, from out of the blue, the missing link -- an eBay auction that has just ended. This one is a 1965 Stetson 100, complete with all kinds of interesting documentation, including the following product information:

Like any other examples of Stetson 100's that we have seen, this one does not contain "Open Road" on the sweat. Nevertheless, Stetson's own spec sheet identifies the hat as an "Open Road." See the full auction here: 1965 Stetson 100 Open Road.

So, in the end, did a Stetson have to somehow display "Open Road" to be considered an Open Road? Back in the day -- I don't think that's how things were viewed. I find this consistent with the way that Stetsons were marketed and sold decades ago. For example, many models of Stetson lids were tagged to particular price points. Thus, in the period from 1948 to 1958, the Playboy and the Whippet were, by definition, Royal Stetson quality lids that cost $10.00. But, if you went into a hat store searching for a Whippet, the salesman might show you a hat in the exact same style, but in a Royal DeLuxe quality for $12.50, without the "Whippet" moniker (I have one of these -- brown felt/green ribbon).

The Open Road, however, seems to have been a particular model line that actually encompassed several "quality" levels. At some of these quality levels, the "Open Road" name was retained -- at others, it might not have been. Kind of a hybrid in this regard. But, whether the sweat said "Open Road" or not -- I think everyone knew what they were talking about.

OK, all of this is offered in the spirit of sharing a few ideas. Now, who's buying the next round?...

Cheers,
JtL

 

[Michaelshane]

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap Nice job.

 

[Stan]

Hi,

Yes, nice job and it makes sense to me.

The key to the Open Road for me, is the thought that it's not a Cowboy hat. Cowboy hats are for those that work on the ranch. An Open Road is for those that own the ranch.

But, then as now, there are all sorts of ranches. Big, small, and everything in between. However, the Open Road is meant for the ranch owner, and the owner of a small ranch could not pay $100 for a hat in 1951 like the owner of the big ranch could.

So, we see the Open Road in all manner of quality levels to match. Yes, that makes sense to me.

Oh, and if one was paying $100 for such a hat in 1951, then having the sweatband marked to reflect it was the top-of-the-line was more important than the model name. After all, the owner of a big ranch back then was just as likely to want everyone to know that as they are today!

BTW, I kept looking at that anniversary Open Road 100. A lot. I just could not decide if that was to high a price or not. In the end, obviously, I managed to keep my bidding finger off the danged mouse button. Mainly because if I did go for it, I'd never risk wearing it because of that history. I can bring myself to pay $500(+) for a super custom hat I will wear all the time, but can't see paying so much for a closet queen. What I need is a Stetson 7x / 50 for $150 or so. That, I would wear! lol

later!

Stan

 

[Chinaski]

Nice Open Road treatise, Jimmy. I'm curious about the price marked on that tag. It looks like it says $672.00 (I can't really make out the numbers with certainty) and then in parentheses (100.00.) What do you make of that? Is it Canadian or some other country?

 

[Michaelshane]

It doesn't say 100.00


$ 672.00
_________

(100)

 

[jimmy the lid]

I find the $672.00 price to be a very interesting bit of information. I have always wondered how Stetson's top of the line could be priced at $100 in the early 50's -- yet still only cost $100 ten to fifteen years later. By that time, plenty of Stetsons had moved up in price, and by the mid-60's some had gone up rather significantly (although not by a factor of 5 or 6 times).

It makes complete sense to me that the hat would retain the "Stetson 100" moniker, while at the same time moving up in price. The more significant price increase on this particular hat might be tied to the fact that, as I understand it, these lids involved the work of Stetson's most senior hatters -- and, by the mid-60's this kind of work would have been more costly, and the relatively steeper price increase may well have reflected the fact that the Stetson 100 represented a more labor-intensive product. [huh]

Who knows? But a very interesting detail, nonetheless.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[Dinerman]

According to the inflation calculator, $672 in 1965 would work out to be over $4500 in today's money. It strikes me as very expensive.

$100 in 1951 would be worth $121 in 1965 money, so there is a jump from inflation, but not nearly that much.
$100 in 1951 = $816 in 2009
$100 in 1965 = $673 in 2009

 

[jimmy the lid]

If someone told me that, by 1965, the Stetson 100 had doubled in price, I guess I wouldn't have a hard time believing that. But, I agree, Dinerman -- how you get to $672 in that time frame is a real stretch. I don't quite know what to make of it...

Cheers,
JtL

 

[Stan]

Hi,

It's a 'double 100'. It's a Stetson 100 *and* a Stetson 100th anniversary hat.

There's not only the case worth as much as the hat ( the one that made a $50 7x go to $100 in 1950), there's the special nature complete with history booklet!

I'd love to read that booklet. I have this idea that the anniversary hat might have been hand-made by the most senior hatters, and if so, the book would have said so.

If this were the case, then the price of the hat would have reflected all of those things. Of course, half of that $672 price would be marketing markup over and above the specialness of the rest of it, just because they could.

It surely was a high price tag, in any case. I'm now just a little bit sorry that I didn't go for it just so I could read that booklet. I was really hoping that someone else here would get it so we could all know.

Well, maybe it'll show back up with a lowered BIN and then one of us can be silly and go for it.

later!

Stan

 

[Dinerman]

Hi,
There's not only the case worth as much as the hat ( the one that made a $50 7x go to $100 in 1950), there's the special nature complete with history booklet!
Stan

A 7x and a 100 are quite different. They were also both produced simultaneously- the 100 did not replace the 7x.

 

[gtdean48]

...
Well, maybe it'll show back up with a lowered BIN and then one of us can be silly and go for it.

Very prophetic Stan as that seems to have happened... [huh]

 

[jimmy the lid]

Actually, Stan -- you raise a good point. The pricing on this particular hat may have had a lot to do with the fact that it was packaged as the Centennial Stetson 100. If the case is real leather, as opposed to the faux-leather usually used on the 100 case, that could contribute to some of the increased cost. Either way, though, I think that the Centennial nature of this particular lid is definitely a factor.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[Lefty]

I think it kills the entire theory, and all of you OR heretics should be burned.

 

[John in Covina]

I can't say that i am constantly looking for these but it seems that the OR with case only comes up on ebay once in a while and is a fairly rare thing with a higher perceived value. I could easily imagine it fetching a higher price during better economic times.

 

[ScottF]

I think it kills the entire theory, and all of you OR heretics should be burned.

Burning them sounds good, but which ones are the heretics? ....the ones who think any Stetson with a thin ribbon and bound brim is an 'Open Road', the ones who think only the ones that have 'Open Road' stamped on the sweatband, or the ones who think any hat that they own that looks like an Open Road from a distance of 100 yards or less?

I have several Stetson No. 1's that I think are 'Open Road's and two of them are black :eusa_doh:

Scott <=== thinks the Stetson 100 is actually a 'Stratoliner'

 

[jimmy the lid]

What a bunch of wise guys -- which, of course, I frown on...

 

[ScottF]

What a bunch of wise guys -- which, of course, I frown on...

Your write-up was very well-done, and like most here, I understand your logic and agree with it.

Briefly going off to a tangential topic, if you look at any of the old saddlery catalogs from the '40s, you'll see that the differences in the westerns can be very subtle. I don't think it matters if someone wants to call a hat an 'Open Road' when it's really a western, but I also don't see any problem with us debating what is or isn't an 'Open Road' and telling them that in our opinion they are incorrect - I hate to see people take offense when the Open-Roadedness of their hat is questioned.

I wouldn't be surprised if back when Stratoliners were introduced, people might have commented "Hey, you've got that new Stratoliner Open Road"

 

[jimmy the lid]

I also don't see any problem with us debating what is or isn't an 'Open Road' and telling them that in our opinion they are incorrect...

I completely agree with this, Scott -- see Post 1315, for example.

 

[ScottF]

I completely agree with this, Scott -- see Post 1315, for example.

What if GClark had an 'Open Road' style ribbon added to that hat - then is it an Open Road?