The Open Road Guild

[ScottF]

Not only do the quality descriptions change to a point of some being switched in hierarchy, over the decades the quality itself has changed so that many furfelt quality levels of the past cannot be matched today.:eusa_doh:

Imagine if gas grades were subject to this, we'd be using 79 octane as premium by now. Regular would have less octane than fruit cocktail.

Haha - don't get me started on diminishing quality of U.S.-produced products. I prefer to own one single example of an item, in high-quality form, as opposed to crappy examples that don't last.

 

[jimmy the lid]

Yep. It's darn confusing.

Guys --

I think that this is actually all very straightforward. What makes it confusing is when you mix together the concepts of "quality" and "marketing hierarchy."

Here's what I mean...

The chart that I posted shows the marketing hierarchy for Stetson hats during the post-war decade. That's the way that Stetson distinguished between hats for purposes of marketing and pricing. It's very straightforward.

The discussion of "quality" is something very different -- and, of course, it is why we come to the Lounge, sit at a table, have a drink, and discuss the merits of various hats over time. So, is a 1948 Royal Stetson better than a 1956 3X fedora? That's a discussion that takes into account changes in quality over time, and involves a subjective element. But, regardless of our subjective opinions on that topic, it remains a fact that a Royal Stetson was positioned as an entry-level hat, and the 3X was positioned above it for purposes of marketing. The marketing designations can serve as a kind of rough guide for our assessment of quality -- however, using these marketing designations to compare particular hats is perhaps most meaningful when the comparison involves hats from the same relative timeframe.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[ScottF]

Guys --

I think that this is actually all very straightforward. What makes it confusing is when you mix together the concepts of "quality" and "marketing hierarchy."

Here's what I mean...

The chart that I posted shows the marketing hierarchy for Stetson hats during the post-war decade. That's the way that Stetson distinguished between hats for purposes of marketing and pricing. It's very straightforward.

The discussion of "quality" is something very different -- and, of course, it is why we come to the Lounge, to sit at a table, have a drink, and discuss the merits of various hat over time. So, is a 1948 Royal Stetson better than a 1956 3X fedora? That's a discussion that takes into account changes in quality over time, and involves a subjective element. But, regardless of our subjective opinions on that topic, it remains a fact that a Royal Stetson was positioned as an entry-level hat, and the 3X was positioned above it for purposes of marketing. The marketing designations can serve as a kind of rough guide for our assessment of quality -- however, using these marketing designations to compare particular hats is perhaps most meaningful when the comparison involves hats from the same relative timeframe.

Cheers,
JtL

I kind of assumed that at any given time, the high-dollar hat was of better quality than the lower-dollar one. And as I mentioned a few posts back, obviously quality digressed within each 'marketing designation' over the years. I'm really just curious in any particular year, how quality between marketing designations compared.

I've asked a few times how a 3x compared quality-wise to the higher-grade hats ones such as a 7x, 100, etc. (at the same period, for instance 1950), but haven't heard anything. It could be, and I'm guessing because no one else has chimed in on this, that the felt is exactly the same, but other aspects of the hat are of better quality...or maybe the felt is simply thicker (or thinner).

I would love to hear from someone like you, jtl, who has examples of each.

 

[Lefty]

My 25 and CB seem to be within a decade of each other, and there is a huge difference between them. The 25 molds pretty well by hand when dry, but takes a bit more finesse to shape. The CB is like silly putty.

At one point, I had a 70s 3x (with the rectangle around the designation on the sweat). It could only be worked with steam and, even then, it didn't take a crease very well.

 

[gtdean48]

My 25 & 3X are from same time period & the 25 felt is definitely the higher quality of the 2. The sweatbands are very similar. The 3X has the embroidered Last Drop where the 25 has the Twenty Five over the logo in gold, so they are different but no quality separation. The ribbons on band & edge seem identical.

 

[ScottF]

My 25 and CB seem to be within a decade of each other, and there is a huge difference between them. The 25 molds pretty well by hand when dry, but takes a bit more finesse to shape. The CB is like silly putty.

At one point, I had a 70s 3x (with the rectangle around the designation on the sweat). It could only be worked with steam and, even then, it didn't take a crease very well.

Thanks! I just won another 3x Open Road which appears to be an older one, but if not, it can serve as good comparison to a c1950 3x that arrives today.

Silly putty? Now I have to have one - the idea that I can roll my hat across the Sunday comics and copy my favorite cartoons onto it, is too much to pass up!

 

[Justdog]

3x

Isn't the 3x also a higher quality than the Royal Deluxe? This will be the first time I've had two different 'quality' felt versions of the same hat model, so if the darned thing ever arrives I'll know the difference.

It would also be nice if jtl would send a swatch from one of his 100's for comparison.

Actually I was going to mention that in the original post but my 3x is not an official OR. Yes the quality of the felt is very close between my 3x and this OR.
Also the 3x has another unique color, a beautiful brown. The felt is super soft and pliable. My 3x smelt was dirty and I was not impressed when I got it. It went to the Toronto hatter and voila it was pristine. Personally I love 3x and sovereigns as well.

 

[Lefty]

Silly putty? Now I have to have one - the idea that I can roll my hat across the Sunday comics and copy my favorite cartoons onto it, is too much to pass up!

I haven't tried it, but I think I could press an imprint of my face into the hat as a new crease.

(Me? Hyperbole? Never.)

 

[ScottF]

I haven't tried it, but I think I could press an imprint of my face into the hat as a new crease.

(Me? Hyperbole? Never.)

I almost typed something that would forever label me as inappropriate.

 

[Atticus Finch]

JTL, the chart that you posted above is very helpful to me and I agree that it is straightforward. I guess that one must bear in mind that our country was very different in the 'forties and 'fifties. The economy was less dynamic, and prices and wages remained constant for much longer periods of time. For what it is worth, models of Gibson guitars were originally numbered in a similar fashion. The Gibson J-45 once cost $45. For an extra five bucks, one could get a clear-spruce front on the same guitar...except that it was then called a J-50.

But what still is a bit confusing to me is how Stetson named the various styles of their hats...or not. Open Roads say Open Road on the sweat. I think that they came in several qualities...Royal, Royal Deluxe, 3X and the like. But some Stetsons, that looked exactly like ORs, were unnamed...and cost the same or more. It almost seems that the names were randomly placed on hats. I know that must not be true, but it seems so.

AF

 

[Justdog]

Chime in

I kind of assumed that at any given time, the high-dollar hat was of better quality than the lower-dollar one. And as I mentioned a few posts back, obviously quality digressed within each 'marketing designation' over the years. I'm really just curious in any particular year, how quality between marketing designations compared.

I've asked a few times how a 3x compared quality-wise to the higher-grade hats ones such as a 7x, 100, etc. (at the same period, for instance 1950), but haven't heard anything. It could be, and I'm guessing because no one else has chimed in on this, that the felt is exactly the same, but other aspects of the hat are of better quality...or maybe the felt is simply thicker (or thinner).

I would love to hear from someone like you, jtl, who has examples of each.

OK I think I saw some of this elsewhere but I,ll post what my experience is so far. My 100 is expertly finished and soft to the touch but not pliable as it is a firm blocked hat with no bound edge. The 7X Clear beaver are not as pliable as well since they are blocked a particular way. The 25s vary from fedora pliable to stiff if blocked that way. Thicker more substantial felt and durable. 3x soft as velvet and pliable OR style, Although I have a 3x that is pretty much the same felt as a 25. Sovereign Soft and pliable and another hard blocked. Royal deluxe soft pliable fedora style easily as nice as a 3x. It also boils down to preference. You could get a RD OR hard blocked as I have one in a cattleman, it also has a real snap brim. Sometimes I love the 100 as it has a spectacular up turned flange, same as the soft sovereign I have. Sometimes I like the classic cattleman 7x with the 2 1/2 brim.
Thing is when comparing I would have to have the same basic styles the same felt pounce, if that is the right term, to make a much closer determination. Like clone the OR deluxe into the several marketed hat levels on the chart and then evaluate them. I know people have already stated in the 100 thread that the felt is substantial on that hat. For pure versatility it is hard to beat the classic OR with soft felt snap brim and 2 7/8 brim width.
Think stiffener has a lot to do with it as well depending on the block.
Whew!:

 

[ScottF]

OK I think I saw some of this elsewhere but I,ll post what my experience is so far. My 100 is expertly finished and soft to the touch but not pliable as it is a firm blocked hat with no bound edge. The 7X Clear beaver are not as pliable as well since they are blocked a particular way. The 25s vary from fedora pliable to stiff if blocked that way. Thicker more substantial felt and durable. 3x soft as velvet and pliable OR style. Sovereign Soft and pliable and another hard blocked. Royal deluxe soft pliable fedora style easily as nice as a 3x. It also boils down to preference. You could get a RD OR hard blocked as I have one in a cattleman, it also has a real snap brim. Sometimes I love the 100 as it has a spectacular up turned flange, same as the soft sovereign I have. Sometimes I like the classic cattleman 7x with the 2 1/2 brim.
Thing is when comparing I would have to have the same basic styles the same felt pounce, if that is the right term, to make a much closer determination. Like clone the OR deluxe into the several marketed hat levels on the chart and then evaluate them. I know people have already stated in the 100 thread that the felt is substantial on that hat. For pure versatility it is hard to beat the classic OR with soft felt snap brim and 2 7/8 brim width.
Whew!:

Wow! Thanks for taking the time to post all of that. Very interesting that you could get the 100's either hard-blocked (yours) are pliable like silly putty (Lefty's). I wouldn't have expected that. Velly interesting. Thanks!

 

[gtdean48]

I should also mention that my Canadian made Royal Stetson is a noticeable notch above my USA made Royal Stetson of about the same time period. Those beavers put up with a harsher winter up there I guess! [huh]

 

[gtdean48]

Wow! Thanks for taking the time to post all of that. Very interesting that you could get the 100's either hard-blocked (yours) are pliable like silly putty (Lefty's). I wouldn't have expected that. Velly interesting. Thanks!

I wonder what the time period difference could be.... [huh]

 

[ScottF]

I should also mention that my Canadian made Royal Stetson is a noticeable notch above my USA made Royal Stetson of about the same time period. Those beavers put up with a harsher winter up there I guess! [huh]

That's interesting - I have a late '50s Canadian 'Royal Deluxe' that is thick and very difficult to shape.

 

[ScottF]

I went back to edit the location of my 'Royal Deluxe' hat pics, and found the post is no longer editable. So, here's one with accurate color:

 

[John in Covina]

I went back to edit the location of my 'Royal Deluxe' hat pics, and found the post is no longer editable. So, here's one with accurate color:

It seems to me that the color is along the lines of what I have seen referenced as "Mink."

 

[gtdean48]

That's interesting - I have a late '50s Canadian 'Royal Deluxe' that is thick and very difficult to shape.

The Canadian felt is more dense & has more heft to it than the US made hat. It seems closer to my US Royal Deluxe than the US Royal Stetson.

 

[gtdean48]

It seems to me that the color is along the lines of what I have seen referenced as "Mink."

I thought Mink was a dark brown color. This looks Silver Belly-ish to me...

 

[carouselvic]

I thought Mink was a dark brown color. This looks Silver Belly-ish to me...

Right you are sir!