The Nazi Gold Train

[Otter]

A nice Chateaux somewhere perhaps ?

 

[Big J]

A nice Chateaux somewhere perhaps ?

Sounds about right!

 

[newsman]

I've always been creeped out by "reenactor" Nazis, to be honest. I realize somebody has to be the Bad Guys at reenactments, but I just can't get the YOU'RE PRETENDING TO BE SOMEONE WHO FOUGHT FOR HITLER thing out of my mind. I think it trivializes what those uniforms stood for, and I don't support it by attending such events.

I totally agree. Sure...someone has to be the bad guys...but I could not play that role. Totally wigged out. I even have a few historical items from the German army but it's not something to gloat over. They are interesting historical items to be preserved...but still not something to celebrate.

As for the Nazi uniforms in Asia. That's just weird. That being said. I have a couple of friends who managed to marry girls from either Japan or China...and they are wonderful young ladies. But they have zero concept of world history let alone the darker parts of their own history. One girl told me she basically had no clue as to what her country's history was. It's not a big topic of study in their own country. Especially, if it's something they don't want to deal with like the brutality of various wars.

One night after a card game my buddy's wife saw a picture of Chairman Moa flash on TV. She stood up, practically, at attention, pointed to the TV and said..."Great man! Very great man."

I got a cold chill. No one has to explain to this group Moa's criminal history as it related to genocide and murder.

She, however, was clueless.

 

[Stanley Doble]

It's hard to name a "great man" who doesn't have blood on his hands.

 

[Big J]

It's hard to name a "great man" who doesn't have blood on his hands.

Stephen Hawking?
Da Vinci?
Michelangelo?
Picasso?
Mozart?
John Lennon?

I think that conflating 'greatness' with crimes against humanity is a set up to fail. Let's just accept that there are few power-mongers who didn't have blood on their hands.

Conversely, there are many great men who had very little interest in power.

 

[Big J]

I totally agree. Sure...someone has to be the bad guys...but I could not play that role. Totally wigged out. I even have a few historical items from the German army but it's not something to gloat over. They are interesting historical items to be preserved...but still not something to celebrate.

As for the Nazi uniforms in Asia. That's just weird. That being said. I have a couple of friends who managed to marry girls from either Japan or China...and they are wonderful young ladies. But they have zero concept of world history let alone the darker parts of their own history. One girl told me she basically had no clue as to what her country's history was. It's not a big topic of study in their own country. Especially, if it's something they don't want to deal with like the brutality of various wars.

One night after a card game my buddy's wife saw a picture of Chairman Moa flash on TV. She stood up, practically, at attention, pointed to the TV and said..."Great man! Very great man."

I got a cold chill. No one has to explain to this group Moa's criminal history as it related to genocide and murder.

She, however, was clueless.

I don't think that historical items of the nazis should be preserved beyond their own documents of their crimes. What's the need? Their ideology and culture was a death cult, and a failed social experiment. We only require the documentary proof of that to serve as a resource to future generations. We don't need the artifacts of their culture, what can future generations learn from them? The Nazis artistic use of the imagined fake traditions of the 'ancient Germanic people' mixed with the styles and manufacturing of the contemporary industrial era? Nothing that couldn't be better understood by reading a book. Indeed, it's dangerous to elevate the artifacts to the level of important cultural objects that should be preserved since we cannot guarantee that the viewer has the appropriate understanding of historical context. There is the huge risk that these nazi objects would be imbued with undeserved (and unwelcome) new power and symbolism due to their poorly understood 'taboo' status.

As an example, I would urge you to attend the Yasakuni shrine in Tokyo, where over 1000 convicted and executed class A, B and C war-criminals have been interred and worshipped by Japanese Prime Ministers. The shrine operates a very large, modern museum (known as the Yashukan) on the grounds (inside of which a distorted version of pro-Japanese imperialist history is propagated). Outside the entrance to the museum is a steam locomotive that ran on the Burma railway, with a plaque that explains how the railway was built with the hard work of the Japanese army, and the engineering skill of Japanese officers. No mention of the allied POWs who died laboring on the railway.

This kind of incorrect understanding of history must be avoided.

My wife is Japanese, and has a slightly better understanding of the war than many other Japanese that I have met, but as you say, the Japanese have a pretty poor understanding of their history from the start of the imperial era. Mainly this is because the governments of the last 70 years are direct descendants of the war-time government and military, and these hereditary political dynasties staffed the post war Ministry of Education with former military police with an expressed agenda of ensuring that imperial era ideology survived the occupation. As a function of this (and pretty much the only lasting effect to date) the Japanese don't receive an education about what Japan did in the war.

 

[Otter]

Back on topic: apparently they can see images of the train on ground penetrating radar ; can anyone say "Burmese Spitfires" ?

 

[Big J]

Back on topic: apparently they can see images of the train on ground penetrating radar ; can anyone say "Burmese Spitfires" ?

Really, is that what this is all based on? Ground penetrating radar?
I feel so let down.

 

[Stand By]

Precisely, Otter. I recall reading one news article (around 2000-2005? A good while now...) about how someone in England with ground-penetrating radar had found 5 o6 6 perfectly preserved Lancaster bombers - just their wings removed at the wing roots but lain beside the fuselages and they were all there and intact, all wrapped in some kind of oiled tarpaulin too for preservation and the images were reportedly irrefutable … and it all came to nought.
I'll believe it all when I see it. And I live in hope.

 

[Otter]

I remember that, somewhere in Norfolk wasn't it? On some aviation forums the whole Burmese thing is still a banned topic.
I know this kind of thing went on, my sister's father in law was a fitter with the RAF back in WWII. His last job before demob was piling used tools and some surplus motorcycles into a trench then covering it over with earth.

 

[Stand By]

You're right - it was Norfolk!
And the tarpaulins were hessian (I was thinking about it as I hurried back with my lunch) ...

 

[pawineguy]

Really, is that what this is all based on? Ground penetrating radar?
I feel so let down.

Actually I have a friend who is involved is this project now. The people on the ground are sure it's the gold train but it's going to take a lot of money for a careful and safe excavation. I have been authorized to allow you to invest $5,000 in this effort, for which you will see a return of at least 10 times your investment!! PM me for details on the bank account in the Virgin Islands that the money can be transferred to, Big J, and we will get this gold train rolling again!!

 

[Otter]

That tears it ! It's packed full of old Betamax copies of Hudson Hawk isn't it !

 

[p51]

I remember that, somewhere in Norfolk wasn't it? On some aviation forums the whole Burmese thing is still a banned topic.

"The boy who cried wolf" and all the times TIGAR claimed to have found 'proof' of Amelia Earhart both come to mind here.
Yet, people so badly want to believe stories like this, you'll keep seeing bandwidth devoted to 'proof' where it doesn't exist.

 

[Stand By]

Actually I have a friend who is involved is this project now. The people on the ground are sure it's the gold train but it's going to take a lot of money for a careful and safe excavation. I have been authorized to allow you to invest $5,000 in this effort, for which you will see a return of at least 10 times your investment!! PM me for details on the bank account in the Virgin Islands that the money can be transferred to Big J, and we will get this gold train rolling again!!

Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!

 

[newsman]

That tears it ! It's packed full of old Betamax copies of Hudson Hawk isn't it !

Talk about a vintage! Betamax!

 

[Big J]

Actually I have a friend who is involved is this project now. The people on the ground are sure it's the gold train but it's going to take a lot of money for a careful and safe excavation. I have been authorized to allow you to invest $5,000 in this effort, for which you will see a return of at least 10 times your investment!! PM me for details on the bank account in the Virgin Islands that the money can be transferred to, Big J, and we will get this gold train rolling again!!

Cool! PM sent!

 

[Big J]

I remember that, somewhere in Norfolk wasn't it? On some aviation forums the whole Burmese thing is still a banned topic.
I know this kind of thing went on, my sister's father in law was a fitter with the RAF back in WWII. His last job before demob was piling used tools and some surplus motorcycles into a trench then covering it over with earth.

Wow! Where was he stationed?

 

[Otter]

IIRC he was in Norfolk with a Mossie squadron, I can't remember exactly where.

Have a Google for Millon Dollar Point. I dived similar but smaller sites in Trukk and the Sinai ( a gulley crammed full of Bren Carriers)

 

[Otter]

http://forum.keypublishing.com/show...d-in-Poland-(Aviation-related-honest!)/page3&

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