The Lost Art of Manliness

[Marc Chevalier]

...or even say "randy"

Oh, all right. Just for you: "horny".

.

 

[R.A. Stewart]

I am giggling that half of you think its related to appearance...half of you don't....and half of you are arguing for a more manly man...and half are arguing for more sensitivity..


no wonder why people write books....you are all confused.

Confused?! Not me!

Well ... maybe a little.

No I'm not!

Except sometimes ...

Wait, what were we talking about again?

~Rich

 

[reetpleat]

Of course. But it happens a lot less often to guys in tweeds, or even leather and tweeds.

Stereotypes have a social power that being yourself - if you happen not to fit stereotypes - can't begin to approach.

Funny you should mention that. I met a guy downtown this weekend that was well decked out in a vintage collared tweed vest, vintage heringbone tweed norfolk jacket, and leather pants he designed and had made himself. I complimented him on how well he put it together. Quite sure he is gay, but I wouldn't say unmanly, by the way. Two very different things. I am entertaining the idea, but not sure I could pull it off.

 

[Martinis at 8]

Oh, all right. Just for you: "horny".

.

Lol! lol When in the Cicada use "randy", out here use pidgin

 

[reetpleat]

RE Vintage68: You're Welcome. No, I have not read the book or even scanned through it.

RE Carlisle Blues: You're Welcome ...and Thanks for the supportive compliment.

I had also noticed that some others brought up good insightful points - for example someone mentioned transgenderism and the XY chromosomes.

There are those women who are XY, but have Androgen Insenstivity Syndrome and therefore are biologically male, but appear as female.

Also - with transgenderism, this, from what I have read, is caused by the body not receiving a signal from the brain while developing in utero to switch to that designated sex (while we are developing in utero we have both male and female organs).

And too...what of those who are born Intersexed?

I also enjoyed reading Reetpleat's replies of embracing both 'feminine' and 'masculine' "aspects" or "energies" of ourselves. He mentioned about those guys feeling that, in essence, heaven forbid they dress decently.

Where I live in rural Pennsylvania - people have wondered if I'm gay because I dress decently. It is as though dressing decently and good grooming make you a 'meterosexual' and gay for some reason.

[huh]

The whole, he dresses well, he must be gay thing is pretty funny. The term metrosexual is supposed to describe a guy who attends to his appearance like a gay man, but is not. But the term is now often used to suggest gay. That is wrong. Otherwise, you could just say looks gay.

Here in Seattle I am seeing the new trend of metrosexual or dressing well. It is kind of a european influence. Slimmer fits, simple, well made quality stuff. European men have been dressin that way all along.

I can assure you that if you visit any major city in the country, women actually appreciate it and respond positively to it. These days I hang out with a group of guys dedicateto being more successful with women. ALong with learning how to approach and talk better, and be more interesting and fun, we focus on looking good. The idea is that women notice and appreciate it. But there is also something masculine about aguy who attends to details, cares about his appearance, and shines his shoes. Perhaps it is a nice balance between masculine and feminine.

In aroom full of guys, the well dressed well groomed guy wil stand out and hae an edge. But maybe it does not work so well in the country.

Oddly enough, necklaces and rings and bracelets et grat response too. WOmen love to touch, comment on and play with them. May seem rather unmasculine to many, but think Johnny Depp. Sexiest man in the world, so I last heard. Johnny Depp sems to be the perfect blend of very masculine and feminine energies, and the ladies eat it up.

 

[reetpleat]

I like to stay at the La Posada Hotel. It's a very historic hotel. Originally a convent, and then Laredo's first high school. It's the best hotel in Laredo IMO, and I think it qualifies as "Vintage" at least in a Spanish sort of way.

There is a very nice steakhouse with a nice oak bar as part of the hotel complex. It is called The Tack Room. I happen to be in the bar where a quasi happy hour gets started after my arrival. I keep to myself as I have my drink and look at the menu to order something to eat. The place seems to be a lawyer hangout. Men in suits, etc. I am in jeans, a long-sleeved black t-shirt with a leather fashion-type motorcycle jacket on.

The lawyers are talking rather loudly about how good it is to be "back in court" because they have to "work so hard in the office" (I didn't know office work could be so hard). The ladies at the happy hour seem intrigued by the lawyer talk, well maybe. They are also discussing a trial (which I find unusual being that we are in a public place). However, the trial discussion also seems to interest the ladies, maybe. These guys are poser-braggarts, lawyers or not.

One of these posers moves next to me at the bar to order a drink from the bartender.

Lawyer: Excuse me (in a smug sort of way).
M8: No problem (he then orders his drink).
Lawyer: You from here?
M8: No, just passing through Laredo. Probably be stuck here for a day due to the bad weather.
Lawyer: Oh you are hotel guest?
M8: Yep.
Lawyer: Why would bad weather force you to stay here? You a pilot?
M8: No I am on a motorcycle, I'm riding back from Mexico, headed back to Houston.
Lawyer: Oh, I see (and then he moves on).
Sandra: Excuse me, I overheard your were on a motorcycle in Mexico. Hi, my name is Sandra.
M8: Hi Sandra my name is Mike.
Sandra: So tell me about riding in Mexico.
M8: Okay, well...
Sandra: Hey Maria come over here! That girl-talk from those lawyers is boring as Hell.

(Yeppers, the Lost Art of Manliness lol )

I have traveled in Mexico by motorcycle, and have ridden for years. Yeah, you bet I wil not miss a chance to drop it into conversation with women. Gotta do it subtly so you don't come off as a braggart or liar. But yes, nothing says manly like riding a motorcycle, especially vintage or Ducati, and adventuring around the world.

 

[reetpleat]

Hate to pop your bubble here, M8, but the ladies may simply have been taking you for yet another media stereotype.

To illustrate: can you imagine them coming over to you from a table of jacket-and-jeans d'bags if you were all by yourself in tweeds and had just stepped out of a '47 MG TC?

Absolutely. Any guy that is doing his own thing, and is differetn from the guys they are bored with at the moment, will be intriguing and interesting. Especially if he is doing his own thing.

 

[Miss Neecerie]

These days I hang out with a group of guys dedicateto being more successful with women. ALong with learning how to approach and talk better, and be more interesting and fun, we focus on looking good. The idea is that women notice and appreciate it. But there is also something masculine about aguy who attends to details, cares about his appearance, and shines his shoes. Perhaps it is a nice balance between masculine and feminine.

In aroom full of guys, the well dressed well groomed guy wil stand out and hae an edge. But maybe it does not work so well in the country.

Oddly enough, necklaces and rings and bracelets et grat response too. WOmen love to touch, comment on and play with them. May seem rather unmasculine to many, but think Johnny Depp. Sexiest man in the world, so I last heard. Johnny Depp sems to be the perfect blend of very masculine and feminine energies, and the ladies eat it up.

Quick....Write a Book!

 

[reetpleat]

M8: I don't know. Sandra gravitated to you because she heard the words motorcycle and Mexico and, presumably, looked over and saw leather and jeans.

That's a positive image and pulls more "man points" than the trial-lawyer-in-boxy-suit stereotype, but one reason it does is that it too can be seen as a stereotype, however you intend it.

If I may argue the devil's advocate view for a bit and be a gender essentialist: Feminine women crave security. Masculine stereotypes promise security. They think they know what to make of you, so it makes them feel secure.

Absolutely. But don't forget that the corporate bigshot in expensive suit and nice shoes steriotype also says power and security, so many women find that attractive too. I don't mind a steriotype or two. If that is what attracts their interest, then I continue it with my personality, then we are all happy.

 

[reetpleat]

Quick....Write a Book!

Been done. In the last five years, every guy who thinks he knows anything about meeting women is doing seminars, boot camps, and workshops.

However, one I will recommend as it is great storytelling by a Rolling Stone and New York Times writer, is The Game by Neil Strauss. A fun read. As a matter of fact, it is quite relevant to this conversation, because, like it or not, when men talk about the art of manliness, 50% or more of what they mean is being attractive to women. I have the e-book if anyone is interested.

 

[Martinis at 8]

Okay, just one more "manliness" TEX-MEX border story...

Okay, just one more "manliness" TEX-MEX border story and only because you guys and gals are so fun!

This time I am in Del Rio, TX another border town. Different from Laredo in that there are more manly cowboy types here than in Laredo. Never seen a lawyer in Del Rio. I am lodged at the Ramada Inn, the only semi-decent hotel in town with a restaurant/bar. I am traveling by motorcycle again, this time inbound into Mexico, where I will cross at dawn the next morning. The restaurant/bar at the Ramada is called The White Horse See the link.

After arrival and check-in I do my post-ops maintenance on the bike, get cleaned up, put on the same jeans and motorcycle jacket ensemble as in the previous story, and then head over to the White Horse from my room to grab dinner at the bar. At the bar which is part of the restaurant, I find an empty stool between two people. A cowboy on my right and a really good-looking traveling businesswoman on my left (we will call her Suzy). I noticed the cowboy had been glancing over at her a couple times. He must have been interested in her. I make my way to the vacant stool between them. The bar tender asks what I would like to drink, so I order a Moderno Especial, a Mexican beer, and I also ask for a menu. The cowboy looks over at me after I pick up my beer with my right hand.

Cowboy: Why are your finger nails so long, and why are they shiny, are you some type of homersexual?
M8: Dude I'm the one sitting next to the good-looking woman, this stool was empty before I got here.
Cowboy: <snorts>
Suzy: < giggles as she overhears the dialogue> Let me see your hand. <so I show her my left hand>.
Suzy: <yells past me over to the cowboy> His nails are short, what the hell are you talking about? <turns out Suzy is from Detroit and in Del Rio doing some cross-border business for Ford, and is naturally aggressive>.
Cowboy: Look at his right hand, Sweetheart!
Suzy: He's a guitar player you idiot! Short nails on one hand, long nails on the other. <the cowboy shrugs>
Suzy: Hi, my name is Suzy. How long have you been playing?
M8: Off and on for a while <being evasive>. Wanna hear some?
Suzy: You got a guitar with you?
M8: No, but there is one on the wall there, see? I have a headstock tuner and a capo in my pocket here <breast pocket of the motorcycle jacket>.
Suzy: Sure! What will you play?
M8: Start with something slow like Romanza and then work up to something more heated like a Malagueña?
Suzy: Sounds good. Let's see if the bartender will let you take the guitar out of here so I can hear you play out by the pool.
M8: Uh, okay.

Then we get up to leave, as we do so I say farewell to the cowboy.

M8: So long fella. What did you say your name was again? Homer? lol

I never did order dinner.

 

[celtic]

damn biker rockstars gettin all the wimmin.

 

[vintage68]

Maybe it's just me, but the image that brings to mind is that of a freckle-faced ten year old. In short pants.

Just out of curiosity, who's the midget?

 

[The Lonely Navigator]

RE Reetpleat:

You're right about the meterosexual - gay association.

I live in a place where 'manliness' is - or appears to be - shown by pick'em up trucks, hunting, drinking beer, mud-bogging, having big muscles, smoking, getting women pregnant and/or having sex with many women, wearing jeans and a t-shirt complete with baseball cap...you get the idea.

To top it all off with the hanging of plastic testicles from one's pick'em up truck.

Now don't get me wrong - I don't mind pick'em up trucks, as my mom's has come in handy for furniture moving...but...I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

I should add - that the "pick'em up truck" term I had come across somewhere. I had always thought it funny personally...hence my use of it in my post.

 

[Tomasso]

Just out of curiosity, who's the midget?

 

[Martinis at 8]

damn biker rockstars gettin all the wimmin.

Too funny! No rockstar here, but I can always lie! lol

Only acoustic, I've never played with a pick, and have never even played a steel string acoustic, only nylon. Well I did try some rasgueados on a steel string acoustic one time and really shredded up my fingers and nails.

 

[Paisley]

Johnny Depp sems to be the perfect blend of very masculine and feminine energies, and the ladies eat it up.

Another thing about Mr. Depp is that he never seems to be trying too hard, nor does he seem overly humble or proud.

 

[The Lonely Navigator]

I'd have to agree to both statements.

 

[Solid Citizen]

Oh OPIE

Opie without ANTHONY! Solid Citizen [huh]

 

[Martinis at 8]

I have traveled in Mexico by motorcycle, and have ridden for years. Yeah, you bet I wil not miss a chance to drop it into conversation with women. Gotta do it subtly so you don't come off as a braggart or liar. But yes, nothing says manly like riding a motorcycle, especially vintage or Ducati, and adventuring around the world.

The braggart thing - You'll notice in both stories I was approached. I did not initiate the contact. You know from riding, especially if your ride solo for long distances, that people just want to know what you are about. They do the approaching.

Absolutely. Any guy that is doing his own thing, and is different from the guys they are bored with at the moment, will be intriguing and interesting. Especially if he is doing his own thing.

This is the point. In the Laredo case, I'm sure the girls hear the "let me impress you with my lawyer stuff" all the time. Not everyone shares in the worship or self-worship of those that like to portray themselves as a Master of the Universe type.

I think there is some misconceptions in this thread on manliness, as well as over at the McKay site, at least with regards to my frame of reference. Manliness is not really something based on a set of permanent skills like auto repair. But IMO, is based on the requirements for self-reliance and self-sovereignty (SR/SS) as we move through the ages. SR/SS is something that IMO men have slipped away from in that they want to depend on others for the success of their outcomes, and blame others for the failure of their outcomes. The mentality about job security is the one that stands out the most to me. I really don't take the female-centric view of manliness in that it is to be defined by the female.

Manliness in repairing a car or a motorcycle was never done for the sake of manliness in itself, it was done due to the need for self-reliance so that one could get from point A to point B with a minimum of dependence on others during the journey. Taking up auto repair just as a checklist to qualify for manliness is about as bad as the posers I described in the Laredo bar.