The lack of Pedestrian culture in America

[Viola]

An hour?! How far away do you live from school?

Regards,

J

Obviously, about an hour away, my dear Watson. lol

That's about how long it took me to get to school. Once I got on the subway it was smooth as could be but the bus was kinda not.

-Viola

 

[J.S.Udontknowme]

Obviously, about an hour away, my dear Watson. lol

That's about how long it took me to get to school. Once I got on the subway it was smooth as could be but the bus was kinda not.

-Viola

Makes sense to me. lol

 

[Kimberly]

I noticed how much Europeans walk compared to us when I went over there. When I went to France I walked so much that I lost two pounds in a week despite eating bread, cheese, wine, butter, etc.

A lot of it has to do with suburbia and a lot of it has to do with pure laziness. It cracks me up to see people fighting for a the nearest spot to a store in a parking lot on a beautiful day. I can understand when it's raining or if you have kids, are elderly or have some kind of disability, but people in my area almost fight each other for the nearest spot.

 

[Feng_Li]

i live in a city where it's very, very easy to get around without a car.

Portland is pretty good, I agree. I can only imagine what it must have been like with the old streetcar lines. And instead, we agonize over installing MAX service...bloody shortsighted of us.

Then there are bike paths. We've got lots of great ones. But then there are the idiot cyclists who insist on riding in the traffic lanes right next to a great bicycle path [huh]

Or on the sidewalk, what's worse.

I wonder how Edinburgh makes it work. It really is very expensive to run transit in low density areas. Hummm, would be interesting to know! I am not a transporation planner, and a lot of the issues in that area of planning can bore me to tears. However, this could be a good one!

Using Germany as an example again, there are some significant cost savings in other areas. One of the most major expenses faced by low-density school districts is the bus fleet. In Germany, the schoolchildren are issued public transit passes for the morning and afternoon. Bus routes also feed into local and regional rail service.

 

[Feraud]

My neighbor drives to the gym that is three blocks away!!lol lol
No joke!

 

[Kimberly]

My neighbor drives to the gym that is three blocks away!!lol lol
No joke!

lol lol. It's like people who go to the drive thru for a diet coke.

My sister lived in France during the 80's and at that time she said the only gym she knew of was at the Ritz for the American tourists. Her friends in Europe used to wonder why American's would walk everywhere but then go to the gym. They said they didn't need a gym because they walked every where they went (she lived in Paris).

 

[happyfilmluvguy]

And that, unfortunately, seems to result in a social stigma against public transit.

What I've found everytime I suggest taking someone with me on public transportation is they will either decline, or say "why don't we just drive?". Public transportation around Los Angeles is intimidating if you don't have to take it. I take it because I don't drive. I've found more pleasure and freedom on the subway and buses because I've gone places I've never gone before and I don't easily get lost. The waiting time doesn't help when I am rushing around for business purposes, but for shear pleasure, it's great. It takes longer for arrival than it does reaching your destination, and you have time to relax that you can't do when you're on the road.

 

[hotrod_elf]

When I lived in Milwaukee I didn't have a car. I either walked or tok the bus. However, when I started setting tile for living I was always working outside the city so I had to get a car. Now I live in the suburbs and if you are walking you will get run over. Our city now is making changes, they have made sidewalk that Lady Day would be proud of. They even have a center yellow line. You cross the yellow and you will get a ticket . I think people are becoming more aware that other people still walk to work and walk to the store.

 

[Sefton]

I think we can be spoiled by an over reliance on automobiles. There is little patience for public transportation. I live in Burlingame, a small city about 13 miles south of San Francisco where I work. It takes me 15 minutes to walk to the train station here,and then 30 minutes by CalTrain to S.F. I transfer to a city train (Muni) and ride that for about 35 minutes to my stop. Then I walk to work,another 15 minutes. I could drive to work which takes about 30 minutes total,but then I wouldn't be able to relax and read a book or maybe just close my eyes.(on CalTrain,not Muni. On Muni I keep my peepers open...) The roadways are just too filled with dangerous drivers here to make me want to drive all the time. There is a trade off though. The S.F. public transit system Muni is administered by the incompetent, driven by those who would be challenged to communicate clearly in any language,and the ranks of its ridership are swelled with those whose manners and fragrance are memorable for all of the wrong reasons...still,it beats driving here in L.A. north.

 

[Miss Lucy June]

Sigh...I miss "pedestrian culture". When I lived in France I walked EVERYWHERE. It was much easier to stay trim then because 1. I walked everywhere and 2. I had to walk to and from the grocery store which was about a mile away...I promise you'll come back only with the bare essentials!

I wish we had something of the like. The Lord knows it would do us some good...

 

[Diamondback]

I promise you'll come back only with the bare essentials!

Either that, or build a whole lotta muscle-mass and strength, quick...

Just for the heck of it, I skip the bus and walk where I gotta go every so often, the local post office's about two miles from the library I usually work out of, another two and a half to the bookstore...

 

[MrNewportCustom]

My neighbor drives to the gym that is three blocks away!!lol lol No joke!

I always laugh at the people who wait and wait and wait for a parking spot close to the gym door. "You're going TO THE GYM! What's a few dozen more STEPS!?" They're always the ones who spend an hour on the treadmill.

lol lol. It's like people who go to the drive thru for a diet coke.

I've actually stood in line at the slice-of-pizza window and heard people order "Two thick slices and a small diet Coke." Yeah! That one calorie in your Coke is going to more than make up for the several GODZILLION in those thick slices!


Lee
____________________

"People are strange." - The Doors

 

[RetroModelSari]

When I went to the USA for the first time 2 years ago it was a culture-shock. I never owned a car or a drivers license and never had any need for it since our public transport goes just about everywhere. Without friends I wouldn´t have gotten anywhere!!! A friend from Sweden went to the USA for a year and lived with a family at the country-side... she didn´t get to see anything cause she didn´t have a driver-license, too. I´m sure glad to live in a country with a good transportation system!

 

[Flivver]

It cracks me up to see people fighting for a the nearest spot to a store in a parking lot on a beautiful day. I can understand when it's raining or if you have kids, are elderly or have some kind of disability, but people in my area almost fight each other for the nearest spot.

I see this too...it's quite amusing. I generally try to park away from the action both to get some exercise and to prevent door dings on my car. And I always walk to the neighborhood stores, barber shop and dentist.

When I worked at Ford in the 1980s, I had an appartment about a mile from the office...so I walked to work. My co-workers thought I was nuts! I thought it was pretty funny that I worked for a car company and I chose to walk to work.

 

[Quigley Brown]

There's one guy in this town that commutes several miles to work downtown here on his Segway (wearing about every piece of safety clothing and blinking light possible). For some reason there's a city ordinance that allows him to ride on sidewalks (and this downtown has some very narrow sidewalks). The only other wheeled vehicle allowed are motorized wheelchairs. I'll see him just ripping down the sidewalks in the morning at top speed (11 or 12 mph) and I believe he's going to cause an accident one of these days.

 

[Feraud]

I always laugh at the people who wait and wait and wait for a parking spot close to the gym door. "You're going TO THE GYM! What's a few dozen more STEPS!?" They're always the ones who spend an hour on the treadmill.

You are so right! Whenever I am at a mall I park at the empty rear area. The reasons are twofold. One, I get some walking in and second is the fact that my Mustang is an idiot magnet. The local town idiot has to park his horribly dented minivan inches from me to unload his cargo hold of children.

 

[GoldLeaf]

I have no problem with developing a city to be pedestrian friendly. What I have a problem with is introducing high density housing into an area where it doesn't fit in. They think people are going to use public transportation but they don't and end up clogging streets. The unintended consequence is more traffic, crowded schools and increased polution just to name a few things. What they end up doing is ghettoizing an area instead of making it better. Believe me, I have fought it here and seen what utter ignorance can cause. People will never stop having children and you cannot make them get out of their cars at any price. High density in an established area just equals ruination. :eusa_doh: :rage:

Regards,

J

For sure, I agree. Not every place is suited to high-density development. The placement of these neighborhoods is crucial to their success. And part of the success has to be support from the existing neighborhoods. There are some places it works, and other places it doesn't. The example you provided of five houses stuck behind a corporation yard was a bad idea, plain and simple.

Also, high-density housing doesn't mean "ghetto". A lot of higher density projects sell for big bucks. They can be very attractive to a higher income bracket of folks if they are done right. However, I see nothing wrong with making housing affordable. I am a government employee and I don't make a whole lot of money. Yes, that is my choice, but I really believe in my job and its importance. I can't afford a house around here unless it is in one of the poor, run down areas. I can barely afford rent in a complex outside of the problem areas.

My husband and I are a young, professional couple that can barely survive. We are quiet and respectful, exactly the kind of neighbors you would want. However, we are being forced out of owning a home with the restrictive covenants developers place on their projects stating that all houses must be a minimum of "x" square feet, only "x" building materials can be used, etc. My choices are: the run down areas or living 20 miles from the closest store. While some folks like the suburb life, I don't. I hate burning gas for no good reason (in my mind).

Lack of housing options doesn’t only hurt blue-collar workers; it also hurts the white-collar folks who don't make a bunch of money. It shouldn't be this hard. Higher density housing that is affordable would make our lives easier, not just promote the creation of a "ghetto".

I would like to live in a compact neighborhood with a grocery store, hardware store, dry cleaners, baker, coffee shop, bookshop, etc. That kind of convenience appeals to a lot folks that would in no way be associated with a “ghetto”. And as some one else mentioned, single family with small yards can be high density, it doesn’t just have to be towering buildings.

Some cities have areas along existing rail lines that are virtually abandoned. Old warehouse areas that have long since gone out of business. Those are perfect areas to be re-developed. Tear down the old, take advantage of existing rail lines, and there aren't any residents near by to feel as if they have been invaded. An example of high density in an area that should have it

AtomicGlee - nice to meet you It is always an unexpected pleasure to find another person who is in the field and/or has knowledge of planning. I hate cul-de-sacs. Not only do they contribute to a lack of walkability, but they also can be linked to many of society's ills. I will walk past my soapbox; I was about to step up on it, hehe

ferryengr - You made some good points. For example, the subdivision process in my county to create 6 lots can take over a year! For goodness sake! So instead we get a hodgepodge of 5 lot subdivisions that don't interconnect and are really of very poor quality. Our commissioners think they are doing a great thing, though, and there is no telling them otherwise.

Anyway, I will hush now Planning is one of my areas of passion. I can yack all day if you let me lol

 

[Miss Sis]

The author Bill Bryson has something to say about this and he is an American from the Mid West married to an English woman.

Having lived in places with both good and bad public transport, I see both sides. In England I do use mostly p.t for getting to work (an hour and a half door to door there and two hours home) and going into London. It's fairly reliable. In New Zealand there's not so much if you want to get out of the city so I always had a car. I just try to be responsible as to when I drive if there isn't much transport.

We always park in the outreaches of the carpark and walk. Saves time hunting for one next to the front door of the shopping mall or supermarket!

 

[Twitch]

Own a car. Have owned one since I was 16. It's great that some people live in old eastern cities and have elaborate public transportation systems or live in tiny villages where you can walk to everything but in the vast majority of the US this is not at all feasable. The smaller towns I lived in had little or no public transportation. Smaller towns make up the bulk of population centers in this country.

In Southern California it is possible to take public transportation if you are one of a handfull who are within range of a rail system that actually and luckilly gets you close enough to work. Busses are famous for making people spend 2-3 more hours in transit and waiting for them than if they drove a car. For food shopping and medical needs you must be very lucky to be able to walk to the store that is of your choosing otherwise you're stuck with whatever retail food outlet there is. My nearest chain grocer besides a 7-11 is 2 miles.

5 miles to my med facility. People could take a bus I guess but unless they have limitless time and the ability to leave work whenever they desire it doesn't work. To be sure of getting there on time I might have to leave 90 or more minutes in advance.

Busses here run on a wacky roundabout route instead of the way they did where I grew up in St. Louis. You could take a north or southbound bus to a favorable point get a transfer and take an east or westbound bus. Logical grid and worked fine. In So. Cal. the busses make all sorts of turns over various streets seemingly in a effort to find enough people to pick up so it is viable to even exist. You have to study routes to find a bus that hopefully will pass near enough where you want to go.

I've lived in smaller population areas of 50-80,000 where public transportation besides taxis was a joke or non-existant. It doesn't work even if a town can afford to have some busses. They simply don't cover the area as you'd need. And when you have to go outside the city limits you're stuck anyhow.

My little neighborhood is cool in that there are many small businesses within walking distance. Hardware, eats places, 7-11, video store, donut shop, cleaners, bar,, 2 hair salons, 99¢ store, etc. But there are many areas where tracts zoned for residential abound and there are NO retail stores of any kind with a 2 mile radius. So how would you live without personal transportation?

Any serindipitous time that some form of public transportation here actually coincides with your actual destination or time schedule is exceedlingly rare.[huh]

 

[Paisley]

Here are three articles by the same author I found very interesting. Freedom from the automobile is one of the things about living in Germany that I miss the most.

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

The author of these articles goes on at length about how much he'd like to see a return to the corner grocery store instead of supermarkets. Mini-marts are great, but everything is more expensive and there is a lot less variety.

I do enjoy working downtown. It's nice to go to the library, shop for clothes, go to a movie, go dancing, etc. via my own two feet. There's also a different vibe here that doesn't exist in the sleepy suburbs. Almost everything is within walking distance. Everything, that is, except my doctors, my dog's vet, my hairstylist, most of my friends and my family. (There are supermarkets near downtown.) Even if I lived downtown, I'd have to have a car or take a cab.

Where I actually live is in a mixed-use area. It's about halfway between downtown and the meandering suburbs. I suppose I could get by without a car, but my time is limited. It would take me most of the day to go to the library, the grocery store, etc.--errands I accomplish within an hour or so with the car. I wouldn't be able to shop where I can get the best prices. I'd be pushing a cart in everything from snowing, blowing, 20 degree weather to 105 degree scorching heat.

I guess I'm saying I like a little of both worlds.