The History/Evolution of Birth Control *Ladies Only*

[LizzieMaine]

Makes sense -- the doctors of the time suspected they were working on the right area, but it wasn't until the twenties that male sex hormones were positively identified. Prior to that, nobody really understood how they worked or what connection they had to different parts of the body, and anything they did was trial and error.

Female hormones weren't synthesized until well into the thirties, and the research for this laid the groundwork for what eventually became the Pill. So even that project grows out of Golden Era roots.

There's a fascinating book from the mid-twenties called "Why We Behave Like Human Beings," which goes into a lot of this early research about the link between hormones and the rest of the body. Really interesting to explore how much was being discovered then for the first time.

 

[Foofoogal]

It's too bad that in her lifetime she was vilified for her work.

she practiced eugenics. Dont use me as an arguing point, FooFoo.

If we are going to get off track on this thread then be fair.

 

[Foofoogal]

Doctors proved with female hormone therapy they still have a long way to go. That sure was a mess. Horse urine. Surely.

 

[LizzieMaine]

she practiced eugenics. Snipping me out of it.

If we are going to get off track on this thread then be fair.

One of the problems I have with identity-driven history is that too often we only look at the aspects of a particular historical figure's life that suit our own particular point of view -- which gives us a very skewed understanding of what actually happened and why. That's why I try not to limit my own reading to "a feminist perspective" on things like the birth control movement -- because the whole eugenics angle *was* a genuine aspect of that movement in its earliest days, and to downplay or ignore that doesn't give the whole story. Sanger did do important, progressive work that we benefit from today -- but she was also heavily involved in the eugenics movement, which had deeply racist elements to it, and we do no one any favors by whitewashing that.

That's not political debate, that's simply acknowledging the complexity of history.

That said, from what I've read of Sanger's specific writings on racial topics, she was more interested in slowing the growth in the population of the underclasses -- black and white alike. She also believed that people should be strictly and rigidly segregated for purposes of reproduction on the basis of intellectual ability. That's a whole issue in itself -- her involvement with the eugenicists was extremely complex, and can't be boiled down to a few simple catchphrases.

 

[Foofoogal]

Thank you Lizzie. I do think this thread is an interesting topic for the powder room and don't want to mess it up.
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back to birth control now.

 

[Inky]

It's great if you can get one. A friend of mine has been trying to get her tubes tied for years, but the doctors are sure she'll want kids someday. It must be nice to be able to know what someone will be thinking years down the road.

I was 10 when my brother was born. I was never into playing with dolls too much, except grown up dolls (barbie and the like), and really I have no maternal instinct at all.

By the time I was 12 years old, I was certain I didn't want kids. I was VERY fortunate to have a doctor that knew me from age 19 to when at age 24 I requested a tubal ligation he knew I was very serious and he agreed. As I recall there was a brief waiting period (a couple of weeks at best) and then it was done.

That was 25 years ago (1984) and the only decision of my entire life that I was and am certain is the right one for me. I'm glad that my doctor did not stand in the way of my life and body choices.

I wish the same could be said for women now, sometimes it seems the more advance we get, the more behind we are.

 

[kamikat]

I wish the same could be said for women now, sometimes it seems the more advance we get, the more behind we are.

Not necessarily. I think it's probably dependent more on the doctor, as well as the doctor/patient relationship. For much of my adult life, I saw midwives for all my OB/GYN care. They were all about listening to the patient and letting her decide. They had a single doc on staff who did what the midwives recommended. I know childless women, both single and married, who had no trouble getting a tubal with that practice. When I moved to an all doctor practice, they told me flat out that they wouldn't do them on any woman under 35 or any woman with less than 2 children. Part of me wonders if any of this is due to malpractice lawsuits.

 

[Inky]

When I moved to an all doctor practice, they told me flat out that they wouldn't do them on any woman under 35 or any woman with less than 2 children. Part of me wonders if any of this is due to malpractice lawsuits.

that could be - i don't have any experience at all with midwives, so I don't know if your experience would be the same with all of them.

I see a Nurse Practitioner at the medical clinic I visit because she does listen to me regarding my own input to my health care, while the actual MD on staff at my clinic does not - but it took a tremendous amount of shopping around to find her.

 

[Red Diabla]

The doctors I've talked to won't do one on a woman younger than 30 or a woman with less than 2 kids. Part of that is practicality. The surgery is more invasive than a vasectomy and the reversal is more invasive than a vasectomy reversal. However, I do know that it's much easier for a childless male to get a surgical solution at any age. This goes back to the political/feminist issue again.

I definitely had to wait until I was 30 to get a tubal ligation, and my doctor is female!:eusa_doh:

I've also heard stories where men under the age of 30 also had a helluva time getting a vasectomy because of the assumption that they'd change their minds, too.

I think it's more about the doctors getting sued down the road than the patient actually changing their minds, which is sad.

On a somewhat related note, THANK GOODNESS FOR PLANNED PARENTHOOD. When I was a late teen, that's where I went for birth control. I got what I needed, which most importantly was INFORMATION, and it kept me from getting pregnant, which is a very good thing.

Whatever their roots were, their goals now are to help any woman who comes to them.

RD

 

[Paisley]

I think if you're old enough to start a family, you're old enough to decide you don't want to start a family (i.e., have a surgical solution). Both decisions are either difficult or impossible to reverse.

I can understand doctors wanting to make sure a patient is making a carefully considered decision--even responsible plastic surgeons do as much before performing cosmetic surgery. However, those conversations take time, and the system in the US is about getting patients in and out, which isn't necessarily the fault of doctors.

 

[Lady Day]

I think if you're old enough to start a family, you're old enough to decide you don't want to start a family (i.e., have a surgical solution). Both decisions are either difficult or impossible to reverse.

Very well said. But there in lies the stigma. It is assumed that all people who can reproduce, want to have children. Its been that way since the start of civilization. Accidental pregnancies are absorbed into peoples lives, but the idea of preventing them, in many, many forms is still haunted with much controversy. Especially for women, and in less developed places, causes them to do very drastic things.

LD

 

[C-dot]

Accidental pregnancies are absorbed into peoples lives, but the idea of preventing them, in many, many forms is still haunted with much controversy. Especially for women, and in less developed places, causes them to do very drastic things.

Sometimes in well developed places too - The difference is how safe the drastic measure is. Developing countries unfortunately don't have the safe medical wherewithal to prevent or terminate an accidental pregnancy, so the women either have to absorb it, or risk the consequences. No wonder there are so many starving children in undeveloped countries.

 

[kamikat]

On a somewhat related note, THANK GOODNESS FOR PLANNED PARENTHOOD. When I was a late teen, that's where I went for birth control. I got what I needed, which most importantly was INFORMATION, and it kept me from getting pregnant, which is a very good thing.

Whatever their roots were, their goals now are to help any woman who comes to them.

RD

I completely agree! Not only did they provide what I needed, but they didn't require parental notification. I wouldn't have gone to anyone if I had had to get parental permission. I can't imagine how that works in today's litigious society.

 

[Foofoogal]

Unbelievable how biased and politically inflaming this thread is and allowed to go on one sided.
Google Margaret Sanger and you may find a different opinion.

LadyDay I apologize.

HANK GOODNESS FOR PLANNED PARENTHOOD.

I completely disagree. Money making machine preying on desperate people.

 

[MissAmelina]

I completely disagree. Money making machine preying on desperate people.

How so? I think if we stick to the real facts (and personal experience with the organization, whether it be positive or negative) we can still discuss this.

I had a friend who interned at one, and she said it was a positive experience, aside from the reality of seeing how many women could not afford health care. I went there for yearly exams when I was in my early 20's as I could not afford to go elsewhere...it was on a sliding scale as far as fees went. They were able to detect pre-cancerous cells on my cervix that would have gone unoticed otherwise.

Are you suggesting it is a money-grubbing machine because other people's tax dollars pay for it? I would send a thank you to them if I could.

HAHA..I keep editing my post as I am terrified it is going to cause some kind of controversy.

 

[MissAmelina]

Here is a Time Magazine article on her...I figured that would be a good unbiased source of info.

http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/sanger.html

And having just finished it, I can say that people who have a certain set of beliefs may not agree with her methods. I am not saying whether or not those are my beliefs, so we can keep this going.

 

[MissAmelina]

From that article:

"There is still an effort to distort her goal of giving women control over their bodies by attributing such quotes to Sanger as "More children from the fit, less from the unfit — that is the chief issue of birth control." Sanger didn't say those words; in fact, she condemned them as a eugenicist argument for "cradle competition." To her, poor mental development was largely the result of poverty, overpopulation and the lack of attention to children. She correctly foresaw racism as the nation's major challenge, conducted surveys that countered stereotypes regarding the black community and birth control, and established clinics in the rural South with the help of such African-American leaders as W.E.B. Du Bois and Mary McLeod Bethune. "

 

[LizzieMaine]

There's room to discuss the historical aspects of Margaret Sanger here -- plenty of scholars have examined her life and covered the different aspects of it, as well as the role of eugenicists in the evolution of the movement, and all of that is fair game for discussion in this thread, as matters of historical fact, being that the point of the thread is "The History and Evolution of Birth Control." For better or worse, these issues are part of that history.

But that doesn't mean we're asking for political or theoretical debate over the modern role of Planned Parenthood or its affliates. Women here are welcome to discuss their own experiences with that and other organizations as part of the overall theme of this thread, but we aren't going to allow this thread to go down the road of debating reproductive politics. There are plenty of other places around the net where such debates can be taken.

My own view of Sanger, for whatever it's worth? She did much good, and I don't believe that she personally was a racist by the standards of that era. By the standards of today, she most certainly would be, but since she isn't alive today, that's not particularly relevant. What she was, without question, was *classist.*

Her involvement with the eugenics movement is not something I find easy to overlook -- if you look up her book from 1922, "Pivot of Civilization," she made statements that I think anyone would find extremely disturbing about what should be done with the "defectives" and "human waste" that made up the lower classes. At least at that stage of her life, she was not the warm-and-fuzzy feminist icon that we'd like very much for her to be.

We tend to overlook such things today, because we *do* benefit from the right to decide what to do with her own bodies, but the problem with making icons out of any individual is that when you try to whitewash such a pioneer's faults and flaws you end up making it that much easier for their positive accomplishments to be discredited by those with a mind to do so.

I wouldn't invite Margaret Sanger to supper -- she wouldn't deign to set foot in my dirty working-class house anyway -- but I'm still grateful for the freedoms that her work made possible, even as I'm embarrased and disturbed by many of her other views.

 

[Foofoogal]

I promised to be nice. I see this as relevant as it is her own words.
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http://www.dianedew.com/sanger.htm

 

[Lady Day]

Unbelievable how biased and politically inflaming this thread is and allowed to go on one sided.
Google Margaret Sanger and you may find a different opinion.

I completely disagree. Money making machine preying on desperate people.

Birth control/ reproductive rights is a controversial and sensitive topic, and I think the ladies here have done a good job at keeping civil and being open to discussion on it.

Foofoo, you have every right to argue your point to the contrary in a calm and rational way (and your opinion is welcome), but if hyperbolic shock value comments are all you are going to contribute, then we can do without it.

As my Granny would say, "Just because you don't agree with it, don't mean it shouldn't be talked about."

All ladies, lets keep this civil and our tone respectful of others. Thanks.

LD