The hat and the patio

[jake_fink]

What is the etiqutte for wearing a hat on a patio/terrace?

My understanding is that a sun hat is fine when the sun is shining on you, and that a hat of any kind is fine if you are having drinks. But what about when the sun goes down? What about a meal, served and consumed just as if you were inside, only al fresco?

I ask becasue there are many knowledgable people here who will know and because my mother still has the power to bug :rage: me. Help me end this discussion... please.

Cheers

 

[jamespowers]

What is the etiqutte for wearing a hat on a patio/terrace?

My understanding is that a sun hat is fine when the sun is shining on you, and that a hat of any kind is fine if you are having drinks. But what about when the sun goes down? What about a meal, served and consumed just as if you were inside, only al fresco?

I ask becasue there are many knowledgable people here who will know and because my mother still has the power to bug :rage: me. Help me end this discussion... please.

Cheers

I suppose I will go out on a limb to answer this one. A patio/terrace is outside and should be fine to wear a hat as long as you are having drinks and milling around. Sun up or sun down shouldn't make a difference.
However, when you sit down to the table to eat, I would remove your hat as it is customary to do so inside and you should be visible for all at the table to carry on conversation with.
Just my two cents worth and what I do.


Regards,

J

 

[shoeshineboy]

i agree with james with one note, if I am in the sunlight during the meal, my hat would stay on....protection is protection...and in 20 minutes the top of my head can turn as red as the tomatoes on the plate!!!!

Usually a gathering on the patio is an informal affair...and sitting around casually, I believe one could wear his hat....

I agree, as a rule, I would remove my hat....when eating...

mark the shoeshine boy

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I agree, as a rule, I would remove my hat....when eating...

And if you end up saying something foolish at the meal, you can always eat your hat.

 

[jake_fink]

Thanks gents,

The substance of the discussion was this:

My wife and I met my mother and her fancy man in the afternoon. The sun was shining and I was wearing a hat (felt not straw). Fancy Man (hereafter referred to as FM) asked why I was wearing a hat since it wasn't raining. I told him I had a lot of forehead happening and I need a hat for the sun as well as the rain. We walked on, FM asked if I wasn't overheating - I wasn't. Soon we stopped at a nice restaurant, sat on the back patio, more or less under the canopy, had a few drinks and a little later we ordered dinner. Now the sun was down. My mother said: "There's no sun now, you can take off your hat, it's rude to wear it at the dinner table."

So, splitting hairs. Mr. Powers, it seems you would agree with my mother. Is that right? The dinner was neither informal nor particularly formal - some men were wearing sandals, which I think is ruder than wearing a hat and more disgusting to boot (the subject of another thread perhaps... but I digress). Can anyone save my sanity here? Does anybody know the "rules" for dining outside in, say, Italy or France where there is a long history of public patio use as opposed to UK or NA where dining outside more often means in someone's private back garden.

I did remove the hat. It made a kind of sense. I only object to the tone my ol' mama took. Maybe she forgets that I'm almost as old as she is now. I love my mom to bits, and she is often very sweet, but somtimes, man, I still wish she'd take a short ride on the shut-up bus.

Thanks for the free therapy.

 

[Samsa]

Soon we stopped at a nice restaurant, sat on the back patio, more or less under the canopy, had a few drinks and a little later we ordered dinner. Now the sun was down. My mother said: "There's no sun now, you can take off your hat, it's rude to wear it at the dinner table."

I think the fact that it was at a restaurant (as opposed to an outside deck/patio at home) adds another reason to take the hat off, especially since the sun was down. I wouldn't eat with my hat on while at home, I don't think, and certainly not while at a restaurant.

Really, though, since hat etiquette is largely a thing of the past, I doubt you'd be raising many eyebrows (except your mother's and maybe some older folks who were around back when there were established rules for hat wearing). Presumably the wait staff didn't say anything to you, so I don't think you would have been in the wrong keeping it on for the duration of the meal.

 

[Aerol]

Jake, you ask

a good question.

Here in Chicago, home of the three-day summer, any restaurant that has a patio has it in front. It's a sidewalk cafe, more European than Californian. Do the rules for wearing your hat change when you cross the thin line between sidewalk and cafe?

If it's ok to wear your hat on the sidewalk to-and-from the cafe, why would it not be ok to wear it at the (sidewalk) cafe?

And, if it's ok to wear it at the cafe during daylight hours, why would it not be ok in the evening?

And, these cafes are seasonal; should the same piece of sidewalk have different rules depending on the season (winter=sidewalk, summer=cafe)?

 

[Jake Sullivan]

My 1 & 1/2 cents

I believe it is a judgment call on the wearer and the company. A group of easy going friends for light conversation and a meal= okay to keep the lid. A group of stodgy, " Fancy Men and their dates" = take of the hat and make dinner short.

As a rule I ususally take of my hat in a place of business, but I also work in a hospital so I have to take it off inside. It has gotten to be a force of habit I suppose.

Jake S.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Now the sun was down. My mother said: "There's no sun now, you can take off your hat, it's rude to wear it at the dinner table."

Hmmm ... it's possible that your mother didn't want you wearing that hat, period. She then waited for an opportune moment to (diplomatically) get it off your head.

.

 

[Pilgrim]

One rule I've heard that makes sense to me is: hat on at the bar, off at the table. If I were sitting at the bar with a lady, however, I'd remove my hat.

One thing is to keep in mind that it is a sign of respect to ladies - especially ones' mother - to remove your hat. If you're seated and having dinner, UNLESS you're in direct sunlight, it seems most appropriate to me to remove my hat. I would do the same if I were having dinner with my boss - unless he wore one and kept it on.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Where on earth did this rule come from, I wonder? Why must a man bare his head for a lady? And why does she not have to remove her own hat for a man -- or anyone else?

.

 

[RedPop4]

This even applies in Church.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Exactly. Unless you're an Orthodox Jew, whereby every adult keeps his/her head covered, period.

 

[Jake Sullivan]

I think it depends on the lady,{ my ex-wife I would not even tip my hat too}. My boss who is also a lady I would remove it. ( professional and common courstesy)

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I have a feeling that in the Golden Era, men didn't remove their hats for strolling prostitutes. I also doubt that white men removed their hats for black women, unless they were Lena Horne. (And maybe not even then.)

.

 

[Lincsong]

I have a feeling that in the Golden Era, men didn't remove their hats for strolling prostitutes. I also doubt that white men removed their hats for black women, unless they were Lena Horne. (And maybe not even then.)

.

Aren't you being a little presumptious?

 

[K.D. Lightner]

Jake -- from your description of the event, it seems obvious that Fancy Man did not like you wearing a hat and was attempting to get you to take it off. I don't know who FM was -- mama's date? friend? spouse? -- but she either agreed with him and wanted the hat to come off, or she wanted to please him and therefore asked you to take off the hat.

My mother, who hates all my fedoras, but not my caps, finally admitted she never did like them, even back in the 30's and 40's when most men wore them. Her own father always wore a hat, even in the house, but she does not remember him wearing it at the dinner table nor did he wear it to bed. The rest of the time, indoors and out, he had it on. That would be true of a picnic. I doubt he ever ate out in a restaurant, let alone a sidewalk cafe.

So, even of someone is from the Golden Era, they may not like our fedoras. Bummer.

karol

 

[Jake Sullivan]

Well... I at the risk of being off topic I did see a 17 year old young man today at the hospital wear I work sporting a beret. Is that the new thing? or am I just old?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Aren't you being a little presumptious?

I wish that were the case.

.

 

[Lincsong]

I wish that were the case.

.

You would be presuming that they socialized in the same social circles.