" The Great British Hat Makers "

[Steve1857]

That is one fantastic find, Panos. Lincoln Bennett & Co were one of England's top hatters, if not the top hatter, from the late 1800s to the early 1900s. The fact that it was sold in a shop in Princes Street, Edinburgh just adds to its many plusses.

George V reigned from 1910 to 1936. I'd place your Bowler somewhere between the late 1920s to 1930s. Probably more 1930s. This mainly due to the type face used, but especially due to the thick leather sweat band you mention. I have a
J. Moores & Sons Bowler from the same time frame with a similar sweat band. They were made that way in order to fit tighter to ones head and so not so easy to fall off in windy weather or out riding.

Looking forward to seeing photos of your wearing it, my friend.

A Lincoln Bennett& Co bowler. Size is 56
View attachment 335196 View attachment 335198 View attachment 335197 View attachment 335199 View attachment 335200 View attachment 335201 View attachment 335202 View attachment 335203
Unfortunately no label pics since I don't dare flipping the sweatband. It's not dry or anything, but it's very thick and not flexible. Never seen one like that before, still very high quality leather.

 

[PanosChris]

That is one fantastic find, Panos. Lincoln Bennett & Co were one of England's top hatters, if not the top hatter, from the late 1800s to the early 1900s. The fact that it was sold in a shop in Princes Street, Edinburgh just adds to its many plusses.

George V reigned from 1910 to 1936. I'd place your Bowler somewhere between the late 1920s to 1930s. Probably more 1930s. This mainly due to the type face used, but especially due to the thick leather sweat band you mention. I have a
J. Moores & Sons Bowler from the same time frame with a similar sweat band. They were made that way in order to fit tighter to ones head and so not so easy to fall off in windy weather or out riding.

Looking forward to seeing photos of your wearing it, my friend.

Gorgeous hat, Panos. Nice find and it seems to be an early one; reference to George V makes it earlier than 1936.

I am tending to love British high quality hat makers and their products for some time now.
Your new bowler is a great example for the content of my passion, Panos! Congrats!

A sweet bowler from Edinburgh, what could be better!

Thank you gents!

 

[PanosChris]

And here is an old velour. Curiosity (read sucker for velours) and a seller willing to negotiate for an already low price, decided for that one. Not my find, @Mean Eyed Matt noticed it first and then Stefan reminded me it's still there, thank you gentlemen!

British manufacture, real English velour, dark blue, size 56

The crown patch doesn't provide any info, anymore. Unfortunately the 60s/70s left their permanent mark on this one...the brim was cut I don't mind a short brim but doesn't look proprorional or right for it's age, at least an overwelt could be fixed Regardless, the velour in that one is of the highest quality from British makers I have encountered (English made, not the Czech imported ones).

 

[steur]

And here is an old velour. Curiosity (read sucker for velours) and a seller willing to negotiate for an already low price, decided for that one. Not my find, @Mean Eyed Matt noticed it first and then Stefan reminded me it's still there, thank you gentlemen!

British manufacture, real English velour, dark blue, size 56
View attachment 336589 View attachment 336590 View attachment 336591 View attachment 336592 View attachment 336593 View attachment 336594 View attachment 336595 View attachment 336596 View attachment 336598 View attachment 336599
The crown patch doesn't provide any info, anymore. Unfortunately the 60s/70s left their permanent mark on this one...the brim was cut I don't mind a short brim but doesn't look proprorional or right for it's age, at least an overwelt could be fixed Regardless, the velour in that one is of the highest quality from British makers I have encountered (English made, not the Czech imported ones).

Sometimes it's just for posterity, Panos. The one who cut the brim deserves a flogging though. The details are great on this hat.

 

[drmaxtejeda]

Herbert Johnson

 

[Mean Eyed Matt]

And here is an old velour. Curiosity (read sucker for velours) and a seller willing to negotiate for an already low price, decided for that one. Not my find, @Mean Eyed Matt noticed it first and then Stefan reminded me it's still there, thank you gentlemen!

British manufacture, real English velour, dark blue, size 56
View attachment 336589 View attachment 336590 View attachment 336591 View attachment 336592 View attachment 336593 View attachment 336594 View attachment 336595 View attachment 336596 View attachment 336598 View attachment 336599
The crown patch doesn't provide any info, anymore. Unfortunately the 60s/70s left their permanent mark on this one...the brim was cut I don't mind a short brim but doesn't look proprorional or right for it's age, at least an overwelt could be fixed Regardless, the velour in that one is of the highest quality from British makers I have encountered (English made, not the Czech imported ones).

So you took that one too!? Congrats on the deal and this velour,
even if, unfortunately, the brim was greatly shortened.
So the dimensions of the hat remind me of "Rocky" from "Bugs Bunny".

 

[Mean Eyed Matt]

Herbert Johnson View attachment 336921 View attachment 336922 View attachment 336923 View attachment 336924 View attachment 336925 View attachment 336926

As I said above: I love the high quality English hats.
This ones felt looks very nice - like the dimensions!

 

[steur]

Herbert Johnson View attachment 336921 View attachment 336922 View attachment 336923 View attachment 336924 View attachment 336925 View attachment 336926

Very nice, Max. I think it's a more modern one, but that shouldn't matter. As long as it's well made.

 

[Mean Eyed Matt]

Again, a fantastic hat that is too small for me
and therefore reserved for Panos...

Hall & Co. London expressly made for Sools Paris:
Wonderful, thick but soft and in addition heathered fur felt;
size 57 (cm) or 5 (French) (somewhat shrunk);
height centre dent at 10.5 cm; unbound brim at 5.0 cm
The hat is in good condition but unfortunately has a couple
of small mothbites - hardly noticeable with the great felt.
The brim is a bit uneven - maybe trimmed later!?
But the look and dimensions make it a wonderful example
of a (late) 30s sporty fedora - in my opinion. You Gentlemen!?
Anyway, too bad it's not my size...

 

[steur]

Again, a fantastic hat that is too small for me
and therefore reserved for Panos...

Hall & Co. London expressly made for Sools Paris:
Wonderful, thick but soft and in addition heathered fur felt;
size 57 (cm) or 5 (French) (somewhat shrunk);
height centre dent at 10.5 cm; unbound brim at 5.0 cm
The hat is in good condition but unfortunately has a couple
of small mothbites - hardly noticeable with the great felt.
The brim is a bit uneven - maybe trimmed later!?
But the look and dimensions make it a wonderful example
of a (late) 30s sporty fedora - in my opinion. You Gentlemen!?
Anyway, too bad it's not my size...

Beautiful hat. Really nice looking heather.

 

[michael78]

Gorgeous!!!!

 

[mayserwegener]

Again, a fantastic hat that is too small for me
and therefore reserved for Panos...

Hall & Co. London expressly made for Sools Paris:
Wonderful, thick but soft and in addition heathered fur felt;
size 57 (cm) or 5 (French) (somewhat shrunk);
height centre dent at 10.5 cm; unbound brim at 5.0 cm
The hat is in good condition but unfortunately has a couple
of small mothbites - hardly noticeable with the great felt.
The brim is a bit uneven - maybe trimmed later!?
But the look and dimensions make it a wonderful example
of a (late) 30s sporty fedora - in my opinion. You Gentlemen!?
Anyway, too bad it's not my size...

Matt, Some how missed this one. It's really fantastic!

 

[Steve1857]

Fantastic looking heather felt fedora, Matt.
Very similar to a Kami I have.

Congrats to Panos

Again, a fantastic hat that is too small for me
and therefore reserved for Panos...

Hall & Co. London expressly made for Sools Paris:
Wonderful, thick but soft and in addition heathered fur felt;
size 57 (cm) or 5 (French) (somewhat shrunk);
height centre dent at 10.5 cm; unbound brim at 5.0 cm
The hat is in good condition but unfortunately has a couple
of small mothbites - hardly noticeable with the great felt.
The brim is a bit uneven - maybe trimmed later!?
But the look and dimensions make it a wonderful example
of a (late) 30s sporty fedora - in my opinion. You Gentlemen!?
Anyway, too bad it's not my size...

 

[steur]

I've been somewhat critical of Lock&Co hats over the years. I've haven't handled very many of them, but the overall impression I got from them that they were decent enough hats, but not of a quality to warrant the price asked for them. Having a shop for a few hundred years in one of London's most expensive neighbourhoods does come at a premium of course and that's reflected in their prices. They do seem to put emphasis on being the oldest hat shop in the world and not about the quality of the hats, we know what we're doing, don't we? It also may have to do with them outsourcing their hats, I believe mainly from Christy's, who are certainly not the best English manufacturer.
Enter this hat and I need to reconsider my opinion of Lock&Co hats. First the hat.
Lock&Co fedora in grey, called French Grey on the label, with a contrasting thin ribbon in black, which is unusual for English hats, which are more commonly adorned with mid-ribbon or wide ribbons. Size 7 (57) with the raw edge brim at 5,7cm and the crown at 11 cm at the center dent. Wonderful hand to the felt and very lightweight at just 84 grams. The crown patch has a plastic covering, so probably post-war.

I'm thinking late forties or early fifties. By the mid-fifties the English hat-industry was already in trouble, mainly due to supply problems (caused by myxomatosis) and by the mid-sixties it was all but gone. In the years between they struggled to maintain quality. This however is an excellent hat and by far the best Lock&Co I've handled. This one is certainly on par with what I consider the better English manufacturers: Woodrow, Battersby, T&W Lees, Scott&Co and Failsworth. I photographed it brim snapped down, but it works equally well brim up and may have been designed that way actually. A nice bonus, because I bought it for the Borsalino hat box it came in.

 

[Edward]

And here is an old velour. Curiosity (read sucker for velours) and a seller willing to negotiate for an already low price, decided for that one. Not my find, @Mean Eyed Matt noticed it first and then Stefan reminded me it's still there, thank you gentlemen!

British manufacture, real English velour, dark blue, size 56
View attachment 336589 View attachment 336590 View attachment 336591 View attachment 336592 View attachment 336593 View attachment 336594 View attachment 336595 View attachment 336596 View attachment 336598 View attachment 336599
The crown patch doesn't provide any info, anymore. Unfortunately the 60s/70s left their permanent mark on this one...the brim was cut I don't mind a short brim but doesn't look proprorional or right for it's age, at least an overwelt could be fixed Regardless, the velour in that one is of the highest quality from British makers I have encountered (English made, not the Czech imported ones).

Last couple of lines there suddenly made it make sense.... I thought it looked sort of Sixties, but the labelling clearly seemed earlier. A brim trim explains all. Would love to know it's history. The general shape with the trimmed brim screams 'Rude Boy' to me - a Jamaican diaspora trend that was a specifically West-Indian pop cultural equivalent of mod for many of the white English kids. It first appeared in the UK in, I believe, the sixties, before having a revival in the 70s. I found this photo online of two young men, twins, called Chuka and Dubem Okonkwo, who lived in Islington, North London, in 1979:

The similarities with mod are clear - there was, of course, also a mod revival around this time. There was a fair level of crossover with the punk rock audience many of whom appreciated the reggae and dub music that came out of the Rude Boy scene. Early skinhead, too - before that in some corners blurred into the racist / white power nonsense it's now perceived as.

 

[steur]

Last couple of lines there suddenly made it make sense.... I thought it looked sort of Sixties, but the labelling clearly seemed earlier. A brim trim explains all. Would love to know it's history. The general shape with the trimmed brim screams 'Rude Boy' to me - a Jamaican diaspora trend that was a specifically West-Indian pop cultural equivalent of mod for many of the white English kids. It first appeared in the UK in, I believe, the sixties, before having a revival in the 70s. I found this photo online of two young men, twins, called Chuka and Dubem Okonkwo, who lived in Islington, North London, in 1979:

The similarities with mod are clear - there was, of course, also a mod revival around this time. There was a fair level of crossover with the punk rock audience many of whom appreciated the reggae and dub music that came out of the Rude Boy scene. Early skinhead, too - before that in some corners blurred into the racist / white power nonsense it's now perceived as.

These guys certainly had style. I wonder if they would have gone for a velour hat though. But no matter how stylish you are, you don't cut hat brims; it's just not cricket.

 

[Edward]

These guys certainly had style. I wonder if they would have gone for a velour hat though. But no matter how stylish you are, you don't cut hat brims; it's just not cricket.

I can only assume it must have been done back in the day when it was an "old", out of style hat that didn't yet have value as "vintage". When I first started seriously wearing hats fifteen or so years ago, it was not uncommon to hear of people buying vintage Hombergs and ironing the brim flat to turn them into fedoras...

 

[Steve1857]

Rude boys back in the day. Great style then and now, though we've learned a lot since then re castrating hat brims

These guys certainly had style. I wonder if they would have gone for a velour hat though. But no matter how stylish you are, you don't cut hat brims; it's just not cricket.

I can only assume it must have been done back in the day when it was an "old", out of style hat that didn't yet have value as "vintage". When I first started seriously wearing hats fifteen or so years ago, it was not uncommon to hear of people buying vintage Hombergs and ironing the brim flat to turn them into fedoras...

 

[steur]

Two British hats came in recently. First one.
Failsworth "leader". Velour hat in grey/brown, size 58 with the overwelt brim at 6cm and the crown at 10,5cm at the center dent. Nice hand to the felt, but to be honest not on par with the best Austrian velours. Alas, some surface mothing on the felt and it could do with a better ribbon.

 

[steur]

And its friend it came along with as a stowaway (I just bought this one and the Failsworth got sent along for some reason; I'm not complaining).
Moores velour in a grey/brown colour called "abbey". Size 59 with the overwelt brim at 5,2cm and the crown at 10,5cm at the center dent. First time I've seen a Moores velour hat. The English manufacturers did make their own and imported them from Germany and Autria. The seem to have been less proficient at it that those countries. Like the Failsworth, the hand of this one is nice enough, but again: not as nice as the Austrian ones. And again "some surface mothing on this one as well. Ribbon needs replacing; can't get the stains out.