The Great Baron Hats Experiment

[Lando]

On April 16th of this year I put an order in with Baron Hats.

I had not read all the reviews of trouble here about them and liked some of the images on their site. It's been more than three months now and all I receive from them is excuses. After reading reviews here, shortly after making my orders, I got very nervous about my orders, but it became like a grand experiment, all be it an expensive one. Would Baron Hats screw me over like they have others or would they come through in good time with a descent product and prove people wrong. Thinking of it as an experiment helps to temper the anger. Well, the defenders here can say what they want about how amazing and brilliant Barons is, but I'm not here talking about your experience. My experience so far is one of excuse after excuse and promises broken.

They said they made the wrong hat one time. Then they said the furfelt bodies were all messed up. The latest line is that they have to wait on the "special" dye for their hat ribbon. At one point I tried to just cancel since they said that production had not been started on my hats. Baron hats has spent a lot of time on their no return policy page on their site, check it out, it's brilliant. Original time tables were missed. I got in touch with Mark Mejia and he made new promises of time tables and those have now been passed. Will I ever receive my hats? Hopefully. Maybe in another month or two or whenever they decide to throw something together. I talk like that because they have let me down so far. Le Samouraï, I'm baiting you, regale me with tales of how awesome Baron's is, and while you are at it, please tell them to get my hats done. Baron Hats has failed my experiment thous far. Some day my hats will arrive and maybe I will give them the smallest amount of credit if they aren't shabby work. I'm not holding my breath. Don't worry though, I will photo the hell out of them and put them up here for your scrutiny. From this point on, if I should ever be asked about who to buy hats from, I know what sellers to go with and which not to go with again.

This place is a treasure trove of information. Thanks guys.

 

[Tango Yankee]

Why not just have your credit card company do a chargeback for failure to produce the item purchased? As you say, seems like an expensive experiment.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[fluteplayer07]

Baron Hats' return policy. And Art Fawcett's return policy.

I particularly love this portion of Baron Hats' return policy page:

ATTORNEY AND ACCOUNTING FEES

Our shipping order forms make it clear that the customer has agreed and accepted to all terms and conditions herein, and if customer should file a chargeback with their bank, or demand a refund, Baron's shall constitute that as a false and/or fraudulent claim and may at that time obtain the services of their attorney and/or accountant, or outside service to rectify this chargeback or refund demand. Customer shall be responsible for all fees including, but not limited to Baron's attorney, accountant and/or outside service fees in the course of challenging said chargeback or refund demand.

First time I've ever seen anything like that on a website for ordering a hat.



Here's the link to the last thread on this subject.

Just throwing that out there. I think this thread should be a sticky.

Regards,

 

[Lando]

Below is from the Baron Hats Return Policy Page:

CHARGEBACK POLICY

IMPORTANT: Customer agrees, accepts and understands that because of the nature of custom orders, we can not accept refunds. In additional any and all unauthorized “Chargeback’s” shall be treated as a violation on the customers contract which they enter into when they “click through” to order their merchandise. Customer agrees, accepts and understands, that if they should instigate an unauthorized Chargeback on any orders, they shall be in violation of said contract, and Baron Hats has the authority to seek any and all remuneration from said customer, including, but not limited to our billed time to address said Chargeback, and any and all staff inter-company or attorney fees to defend said action from the customer.

 

[jimmy the lid]

Thanks for providing that link, Flute.

That has to be the most over-the-top, draconian, pseudo-legal piece of ridiculousness in the whole hatting biz. :eusa_doh:

Based on that alone, I would never do business with these people.

And, incidentally, I wouldn't hesitate to initiate a chargeback against these folks...

 

[fluteplayer07]

That has to be the most over-the-top, draconian, pseudo-legal piece of ridiculousness in the whole hatting biz. :eusa_doh:

You forgot 'stuck up', 'conceited', and 'preposterous'.



I'm outta this thread before I throw up... Again.

 

[handlebar bart]

I agree with Jimmy about the chargeback only because I want him to hire me as his secretary.
But that is nuts. I don't understand why anyone besides maybe George Lopez or Britney would buy a hat from that stooge.

*Jimmy, I'm sending you a PM in regards to my lack of qualifications and salary demands

 

[Lloyd]

I keep wanting Barons to work out since I live so close to them, but they never seem to get it together.
Since the middle of June Mark has been telling me he's working on a new batch of panamas. I wander in there every couple of weeks and still no panamas. It's the beginning of August and he still hasn't managed to get any panamas on the shelf. I guess he's waiting for the first rains of the winter to come[huh] .
In the meantime I've bought 2 hats from Panama Bob and one from David Morgan. My gain, Barons loss.

 

[Art Fawcett]

Am I the only one wondering what is in their experiences that has lead them to making a statement like this? I've honestly never seen anything like this.

 

[tonyb]

Wow. Just wow.

The real drag of this sort of thing is that it threatens to stain the image of the industry in general. Sure, the businesses with better practices look good in comparison, but that can be kinda like saying "for a pig, you don't smell bad at all."

I feel similarly about the misleading (and sometimes downright fraudulent) claims we've read on certain other hatters' websites.

I'm entirely with Art on this one. What prompts them to say that?

 

[BanjoMerlin]

Am I the only one wondering what is in their experiences that has lead them to making a statement like this? I've honestly never seen anything like this.

This is the type of language we see from companies who miss their delivery schedules with alarming regularity and then deliver a product that does not even come close to being what the customer ordered.

 

[Rick Blaine]

Barons? Not even a Baronet, not even an Esquire!

And, incidentally, I wouldn't hesitate to initiate a chargeback against these folks...

Quite right. They are blowing smoke up our collective uh, tailpipes. Hell of a way to run a railroad!

 

[Edward]

Am I the only one wondering what is in their experiences that has lead them to making a statement like this? I've honestly never seen anything like this.

The other instances of this sort of attmept to evade any and all liability under consumer protection law were all in the software industry, back in the Nineties, when 'exclusion clauses' were popular. As there, my suspicion would be that this wouldn't have the slightest hope of standing up in court.

 

[Mid-fogey]

Jeez...

...why doesn't this Barron guy just go into auto repair with the rest of the crooks.

 

[tonyb]

...why doesn't this Barron guy just go into auto repair with the rest of the crooks.

This post illustrates my previous point. Woe be to the honest auto mechanics, of which there are many, for being associated with the scalawags in their industry.

 

[57plymouth]

...why doesn't this Barron guy just go into auto repair with the rest of the crooks.

I assume that this does not include those of us who repair vintage cars. Right?

 

[Matt Deckard]

deep breath

 

[ScionPI2005]

Below is from the Baron Hats Return Policy Page:

CHARGEBACK POLICY

IMPORTANT: Customer agrees, accepts and understands that because of the nature of custom orders, we can not accept refunds. In additional any and all unauthorized “Chargeback’s” shall be treated as a violation on the customers contract which they enter into when they “click through” to order their merchandise. Customer agrees, accepts and understands, that if they should instigate an unauthorized Chargeback on any orders, they shall be in violation of said contract, and Baron Hats has the authority to seek any and all remuneration from said customer, including, but not limited to our billed time to address said Chargeback, and any and all staff inter-company or attorney fees to defend said action from the customer.

Oh wow. Like others have said, this would discourage me from every doing business. This opens up a whole can of red flags to me.

 

[jimmy the lid]

Below is from the Baron Hats Return Policy Page:

CHARGEBACK POLICY

IMPORTANT: Customer agrees, accepts and understands that because of the nature of custom orders, we can not accept refunds. In additional any and all unauthorized “Chargeback’s” shall be treated as a violation on the customers contract which they enter into when they “click through” to order their merchandise. Customer agrees, accepts and understands, that if they should instigate an unauthorized Chargeback on any orders, they shall be in violation of said contract, and Baron Hats has the authority to seek any and all remuneration from said customer, including, but not limited to our billed time to address said Chargeback, and any and all staff inter-company or attorney fees to defend said action from the customer.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if this policy is in direct violation of the terms of the Master Merchant Agreement that Baron's has with Visa/Mastercard. Perhaps Mastercard/Visa should be informed of this "innovative" approach...

 

[BanjoMerlin]

It wouldn't surprise me at all if this policy is in direct violation of the terms of the Master Merchant Agreement that Baron's has with Mastercard/Visa. Perhaps Mastercard/Visa should be informed of this "innovative" approach...

I looked at the Visa merchant info and the Baron's legaleze seems to address three specific issues. It looks like a lot of work went into being sure they were not in violation of any merchant requirements.


8. If your establishment has policies regarding merchandise returns, refunds, or service cancellation, disclose these policies to the cardholder at the time of the transaction.

12. Keep customers informed on the status of their transactions.

13. If the merchandise or service to be provided to the cardholder will be delayed, advise the cardholder in writing of the delay and the new expected delivery or service date.