The Good Neighbor Policy; Latin music in the 30's and 40's....

[Miss Neecerie]

She's crazy. Really. I guess Brazilians get tired of explaining to people that they're not Spanish. But the term Latin should not get conflated with Spanish.

Brazilians see themselves as a very European ethnicity. So on a census they would not check Latino or Hispanic (and these two are OFTEN clumped together, the 2010 Census gives you the choice of "Hispanic, Latino or Spanish origin nor 'not "Hispanic, Latino or Spanish origin' ), rather Europoean or Caucasian. (I am not arguing what is reality here given the racial demographics of Brazil, but what self-identification there is). There is no 'South American of non Hispanic-Decent' on the census or any other official form.

Its rather like a Canadian, or Mexican being always asked to check 'American' on a form....sure technically they are North Americans, so its -accurate-, but its also not at ALL accurate.


So asking them to differentiate between the Latino on an offical form (which carries all sorts of connotations of Spanish relation to it) and the Latin of the 'Latin Music'.....

So whoever was talking to Chas is obviously one of those who identifies Latin (American) with Hispanic...and thus would divorce themselves as a group from that whole thing.

 

[martinsantos]

Miss Neecerie,

Brazilians are not hispanic. From all Latin America, Brazil is the only colony not from Spain, but Portugal.

In North and Northeast, you will find descendants from Portuguese, Indians and Africans.

In South, you will find a majority os descendants from Italy, Portugal and Germany. A lot from Japan, too. In 50s was easier to listen Italian in the streets of São Paulo than Portuguese. Still today you can find some small towns in down south with only Italian and German descendants. (and slavery almost did'nt reach those places. Tehy were quite a lost world, far from everything, in XIXth Century). But you would find very few from Spain.

I'm a good example about this. I'm descendant from Italian, Portuguese, German, Swiss and Austrian. And I don't feel myself an exception!

If fact there a lot of tension about Brazilians and Hispanics in the frontiers, as some friends related me.

By the way, I don't remember in 2010 census these options about origins.

Brazilians see themselves as a very European ethnicity. So on a census they would not check Latino or Hispanic (and these two are OFTEN clumped together, the 2010 Census gives you the choice of "Hispanic, Latino or Spanish origin nor 'not "Hispanic, Latino or Spanish origin' ), rather Europoean or Caucasian. (I am not arguing what is reality here given the racial demographics of Brazil, but what self-identification there is). There is no 'South American of non Hispanic-Decent' on the census or any other official form.

 

[Lincsong]

So asking them to differentiate between the Latino on an offical form (which carries all sorts of connotations of Spanish relation to it) and the Latin of the 'Latin Music'.....

So whoever was talking to Chas is obviously one of those who identifies Latin (American) with Hispanic...and thus would divorce themselves as a group from that whole thing.

Exactly, Brazilians are not "hispanic" and that person probably does identify Latin (American) with Hispanic.

Now up here in the San Francisco Bay Area, where there is a large Portuguese population, there is a tribalism amongst the descendents of the the Madeiran, Azorean and Mainland Portugual immigrants from 100 plus years ago, who VEHEMENTLY, I mean VEHEMENTLY refuse to consider Brazilians as "Portuguese". Most of which stems back as a reaction from the late 19th early 20th Century notion among white supremists that the people's below the Alps and Pyrenees are not "white people", and many of these Portuguese Americans don't want to be associated with Brazil and black slave decendants.

 

[Miss Neecerie]

Miss Neecerie,

Brazilians are not hispanic. From all Latin America, Brazil is the only colony not from Spain, but Portugal.

In North and Northeast, you will find descendants from Portuguese, Indians and Africans.

In South, you will find a majority os descendants from Italy, Portugal and Germany. A lot from Japan, too. In 50s was easier to listen Italian in the streets of São Paulo than Portuguese. Still today you can find some small towns in down south with only Italian and German descendants. (and slavery almost did'nt reach those places. Tehy were quite a lost world, far from everything, in XIXth Century). But you would find very few from Spain.

I'm a good example about this. I'm descendant from Italian, Portuguese, German, Swiss and Austrian. And I don't feel myself an exception!

If fact there a lot of tension about Brazilians and Hispanics in the frontiers, as some friends related me.

By the way, I don't remember in 2010 census these options about origins.

The census I was speaking of is the US census....

Martin, se você lea mais uma vez o que eu diz lá em cima, no diz que os brasileiros -são- 'hispanic' ou 'latinos'. Ao contrário! A problema é uma relacionada aos categorias nos EUA.

Posso perguntar você, se tem que escolher entre apenas duas opções, 'hispanic or latino' ou 'europeo'......? Qual escolheria?

 

[martinsantos]

Sorry my misunderstanding about the census. We had one here in 2010, too.

About the options you gave. First, somebody from Spain wouldn't like - the hispanics are, too, descendants from europeans. Second, in your question you are saying, in fact, that hispanic is the same than latino. If so, I would answer european. It's a completely different meaning, at least to me.

The census I was speaking of is the US census....

Martin, se você lea mais uma vez o que eu diz lá em cima, no diz que os brasileiros -são- 'hispanic' ou 'latinos'. Ao contrário! A problema é uma relacionada aos categorias nos EUA.

More problematic would be about Argentine, that have a strong european feeling (even in Arts, climate, and so on) and have a Spanish origin. Never saw an inquire about.

A Sra fala português? Abraços.

Martin

Posso perguntar você, se tem que escolher entre apenas duas opções, 'hispanic or latino' ou 'europeo'......? Qual escolheria?

 

[Miss Neecerie]

Sorry my misunderstanding about the census. We had one here in 2010, too.

About the options you gave. First, somebody from Spain wouldn't like - the hispanics are, too, descendants from europeans. Second, in your question you are saying, in fact, that hispanic is the same than latino. If so, I would answer european. It's a completely different meaning, at least to me.

Exactly..and someone from Spain would not pick hispanic either, but european.... and in the US census, it literally says 'is this person of Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish Origin?'

http://www.prb.org/Articles/2009/questionnaire.aspx

is where it shows exactly the choices.....I highly doubt that most people of Brazilian origin in the US, would answer yes to that question but specify 'Brazil'.

e sim, falo, mais ou menos...morei no brasil em 1991....

 

[martinsantos]

A lot of Brzilians really are afraid about beeing confused with the other Latin America countries... It's something from local culture. Brazilians absolutely don't like that expression "South of the border"! (somewhat pejorative, anyway, I think).

Onde a Sra morou aqui?

Exactly..and someone from Spain would not pick hispanic either, but european.... and in the US census, it literally says 'is this person of Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish Origin?'

http://www.prb.org/Articles/2009/questionnaire.aspx

is where it shows exactly the choices.....I highly doubt that most people of Brazilian origin in the US, would answer yes to that question but specify 'Brazil'.

e sim, falo, mais ou menos...morei no brasil em 1991....

 

[Widebrim]

Brazilians see themselves as a very European ethnicity.

Brazilians of European ancestry do, Denise, but not those of African or Asian background, even if they have intimate contact with those of European roots. (Argentines and Uruguayans, on the other hand, do view themselves as very European ["El mundo viejo"], since the overwhelming majority of those populations are of that ancestry.) As you know, there is a common concept of what it means to "be Brazilian," though, something which I experienced in my excursions through Sao Caetano/Sao Paulo.

-Lee

 

[Widebrim]

I think she was pulling your leg. About the only countries down there that aren't "Latin" are Haiti, Belize and Suriman.

Haiti is "Latin" if you consider French language and culture to be such (although you'd be hard pressed to find a real Frenchman in a pinch). The same applies to French Guiana, although the vast majority of the people are a mixture of different races. The Virgin Islands aren't "Latin" either; they were settled by the Danish. Same goes for the Dutch West Indies.

The problem, to me, is that the terms "Latin" and "Latino" (as well as "Hispanic") are used too freely. How can, for example, a Bolivian Indian who speaks only Quechua and practices the culture of his ancestors be considered Latino or Hispanic? Simply because he lives in a country which was colonized by the Spaniards, and has Spanish as one of its official languages? If that is the case, then all those residing in the United States and Canada (except Quebec) should be called "Anglo", even if they are of Polish, Sub-Saharan African, Armenian, Chinese, Tunisian, Mexican, Native American/Canadian, or Irish(!) ancestry. As to the terms "Latin" and "Latino," I could call myself Latin (since I'm mostly of Italian blood), but if I do so here in Southern California, I would be pegged as "Hispanic," which I'm not. (And "Latino" is not used here for Italian, French, or Romanian, but for those who are of Spanish- or Portuguese-speaking background.)

As to the term "Hispanic," and its use among Spaniards, it has been my exprience that the latter generally want nothing to do with it.* My former brother-in-law, a Spaniard, considers Hispanics to be Mexicans/Central Americans, as do other Spaniards I have spoken to. I have one student of Spanish parents in my classroom, and her mother listed her not as "Latino/Hispanic" on her child's information card, but rather as "White, non-Hispanic." So while it is true that Spaniards are from "Hispania," it is my experience that they refer to be called Spaniards or Europeans, not Hispanics...(Interestingly enough, when my former b-i-l once spoke Castilian to a Meso-American, the person looked at him funny, and asked where he was from. When the former told him Spain, the other person responded, "They speak Spanish in Spain?" Another time, when he gave directions in Spanish to an Hispanic women, the latter answered, "Thank you" in English, perhaps thinking that the European-looking man with blue eyes who spoke such odd Spanish must be a gringo. Infuriated my former b-i-l...)

*And here in S. California, many Mexicans/Chicanos neither want anything to do with the terms Latino or Hispanic, insisting that they are not Europeans, but rather mostly Native or mestizo...

 

[Widebrim]

Funny, I thought Belize was.

Belize is the former British Honduras. It does, however, have a substantial Spanish-speaking population.

 

[rue]

Belize is the former British Honduras. It does, however, have a substantial Spanish-speaking population.

So I'm right and wrong?

 

[John in Covina]

I am of Danish and Norwegian descent which is Scandinavian but the last thing I want is to be lumped in with those damn Swedes! And don't get me started on the arrogance of people that think the Finns are Scandinavian!

Why I have never been so insulted in my life!

 

[Widebrim]

I am of Danish and Norwegian descent which is Scandinavian but the last thing I want is to be lumped in with those damn Swedes! And don't get me started on the arrogance of people that think the Finns are Scandinavian!

Why I have never been so insulted in my life!

John, control yourself! lol

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Carlos Gardel -- Palermo (1929)

[video=youtube;OZMm1t5x-AY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZMm1t5x-AY&feature=related[/video]

 

[Lincsong]

Xavier Cugat

[video=youtube;zftkbnDP4MA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zftkbnDP4MA&feature=share[/video]

 

[Lincsong]

[video=youtube;1iwOFoSVfbU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iwOFoSVfbU&feature=related[/video]

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Orquesta Tipica Victor -- Mi Taza De Café (tango)
(My Cup Of Coffee)

[video=youtube;HuiHLcb73FQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuiHLcb73FQ&feature=related[/video]

 

[Rundquist]

The quintessential latin song about coffee, Eddie Palmieri’s “Café”.

[video=youtube;nRahInPBzFo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRahInPBzFo[/video]

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Libertad Lamarque

Besos Brujos (Bewitching Kisses)

[video=youtube;yHsb5JunEJs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHsb5JunEJs&feature=related[/video]

 

[Lincsong]

Frank Sinatra;
[video=youtube;H3MqmV47Lq8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3MqmV47Lq8[/video]

Harry Arnold 13 or so years earlier...

[video=youtube;WiyDtleYlfM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiyDtleYlfM&feature=related[/video]