The general decline in standards today

[LizzieMaine]

The US was neutral at the time (were there still US interests dealing with Germany in 1940?),

Very much so. Henry Ford, one of the founding members of the isolationist "America First" movement, was deeply involved in trading with the Nazi government -- and thru overseas affliates and neutral countries *continued to do so right thru the war.* Other major US companies were likewise up to their neck in Nazi business relationships. Patriotic All-American Coca-Cola was bottled and sold in Germany right up until Atlanta finally cut off the flow of syrup to Berlin, which had been channeled thru neutral powers after the declaration of war, in 1943. And even after that, the German affiliate of Coca Cola continued to do business, introducing a new drink called "Fanta," a brand you might still recognize. IBM was responsible for designing and building the punch-card apparatus used for keeping records in the concentration camps. Standard Oil of New Jersey, again operating thru international afflilates, did business with both sides thruout the war -- when partisans finally caught up with Mussolini and lynched him, he was hung by his ankles from the canopy of an Esso station.

There was a widespread belief among American big-business leaders that "we can do business with Hitler," and many of them went to great lengths to carry out this belief. A best-selling book in 1942 was called "You CAN'T Do Business With Hitler," which tried to expose and disprove this attitude, but deep into the war you could find business leaders grumbling that we were "on the wrong side."

 

[HudsonHawk]

I already noted my agreement with this, but I thought I'd build it out a bit from my perspective...

Lots of good stuff here (not meaning to cut you off, just for the sake of brevity in my reply).

To add a bit of my own philophosy on life: Work hard. Be fair with people, even when they're pissing you off (this is especially important in regards to your spouse). Be willing to take criticism. Pay your fair share. Help people who need help, even if they don't deserve it (in fact, especially if they don't).

This is starting to sound a bit like "all I really need to know I learned in kindergarten", but there's a lot of truth to that.

 

[HudsonHawk]

There was a widespread belief among American big-business leaders that "we can do business with Hitler," and many of them went to great lengths to carry out this belief. A best-selling book in 1942 was called "You CAN'T Do Business With Hitler," which tried to expose and disprove this attitude, but deep into the war you could find business leaders grumbling that we were "on the wrong side."

I'm reminded of the words of Frank Pentangeli: "Your father did business with Hyman Roth. Your father respected Hyman Roth. But your father never trusted Hyman Roth."

 

[sheeplady]

I think, Fading Fast, your post emphasizes a lot of the problem I have with teachers and parents who say, "the teacher's can't do anything about the kids!" Many teachers are great- but some are extremely poor teachers who I do not believe should still be teaching.


This, I believe, is the minimum teachers should do:
1. Report other teachers/administrators/staff who are racist, sexist, abusive, and shouldn't be teaching. I've met my share who call their students (out of earshot) inappropriate names. The worst being the n-word and all sorts of inappropriate sexist language, even at the lower grade school level. This behavior should *never* be tolerated from a fellow teacher, and if the administration won't do squat about it, gather evidence of the behavior and take it to someone who will make sure that teacher never teaches again- the state- the school board- the local news. The same goes for a predatory teacher, a sexist teacher, or an abusive one.

2. Do your job, which is teaching. If a student is not ready to move up a grade, do not advance them. Do not make problems for other teachers. Just because another teacher handed you a mess doesn't give you the right to pass it on. If you need help, ask for it.

3. If a student is having behavioral problems, do your best to solve them. Use all the tools at your disposal for punishment. Send them for evaluation. Try to meet with their parents (if they are willing). Do not throw your hands up in the air and say, "I can't do anything."

4. If a student is violent, and the administration refuses to let you do anything, do everything in your power to have that student removed from your classroom and placed into a program that can better suit that student's needs/ issues. Go to the school board. Go to the state. Do everything you can to protect your students. Your student's safety is more important than your administration's impressions of you.

5. Continue your education. Grow as a teacher. Both for pedagogy and for content, but also for classroom management. You shouldn't be teaching the same way you did 10 years ago, yet alone 20.

6. You're a mandatory reporter for abuse. If you see abuse, report it. If you know it is abuse, and Child Protective Services in your area chooses to do nothing, *do not stop trying to report it.* Every agency you can think of it should be reported to, at every level you can find a number/ address for. Do not stop reporting. A child's life hangs in the balance.

7. Mentor new teachers. Show them the ropes. Try to help them get over the burnout phase. Mentor them better than you were ever mentored. Support them better than you were. Burnout is not a rite-of-passage; just because you had to start with no support doesn't mean it is OK for them to start with no support. Ask for mentoring.

8. Support your fellow good teachers. Care for them, help them. Don't look at your classroom as the only part of the school you can effect.



If you're not doing those 8 things, please don't complain your hands are tied. The good teachers I know do this, they don't stop, and they don't look at their job as just a "gig." They are handling and shaping the lives of children and they understand the responsibility and the privilege in taking part in that process. Do they complain when they've exhausted all possibilities or find support lacking? Sure. But they never complain they can't do anything.

Everyone can do something.

 

[pawineguy]

Regarding the comment made above about the behaviour of non-Aericans and war memorials.... I think in part these differences in expectation do come about as a direct result of significant cultural variation. In my experience, the US is fairly unique in that deference and respect for the military is automatic. Views in Europe tend to be more nuanced, I think; military men will be judged as individuals, rather than automatically respected for service. Different cultures, different attitudes. I do lean to the view that when one is a guest in another culture - whether the US, China or the moon - it does not behove one to behave in a way which is considered offensive when there is no need for the same, but equally it would be a mistake to confuse ignorance of cultural norms with wilful insult.

I don't disagree with anything above, and my point was that it's not confined to Americans in Paris who end up looking like buffoons. Cultural differences can probably explain much of what irks me and Parisians both.

 

[DecoDame]

I’d say that if your fervent wish is that you could weed out and round up all those Undesirables you’ve personally identified as an insidious wrecker of good society, you may want to better identify which traditional Era values you’re actually reenacting.

The variations of the Golden Rule spelled out immediately above – having integrity in your dealings with people, taking responsibility for yourself and your actions, taking care of each other out of pure empathy – is something I see in my little ol’ Hippie town every day.

One of the best examples is our annual public Thanksgiving Dinner at one (of the many) local churches. It’s pot luck (but not necessary to attend) and hugely attended by people who maybe don’t have family or friends to visit (especially many of our older populace), and people who would just much rather share their day with the village and visit with many of their neighbors than not. These are the Traditional Values I've missed and want to hold onto. They don’t need to tip a fedora or wear victory rolls to be as genuinely “Era” as many of us aspire to be.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Not one of our brighter spots as a nation. I console myself with the fact that it would, arguably, have been worse if it had been genuine support of Naziism rather than a gesture of hatred for the British state, bearing in mind the context; in 1940, there was still very much a living, middle-aged generation who'd been through the Tan War, not to mention the bittrer civil war over the Anglo-Irish Treaty that followed. I don't excuse, needless to say.

Basically the age old maxim that an Enemy of an Enemy is a Friend (at least for the time being).

 

[Feraud]

Especially those ones. The ill behaviour of the young about which Scorates complained? Bloody hippies! Started a lot of wars, too, them hippies.... That Hitler? Hippy! Stalin? Hippy! And don't even get me started on the Beatles....

Touche Edward! Blaming hippies for all that is wrong in the world is like blaming skateboarding punks on the Lower East Side NYC circa 1980-1985 for the decline in Western Civilization. You may as well beat up handicapped children while you're at it.

Handsome businessmen in sharp suits have done more to ruin this country than any pot smoking 18 year old listening to Hendrix.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Handsome businessmen in sharp suits have done more to ruin this country than any pot smoking 18 year old listening to Hendrix.

"ALL POWER TO THE....oh, wait a minute, we already *have* all the power."

 

[Atticus Finch]

Handsome businessmen in sharp suits have done more to ruin this country than any pot smoking 18 year old listening to Hendrix.

There's an idea. Since we're already defining "hippies" as being every street bum, prostitute and convicted criminal that ever took breath in California, why not expand the definition a little more to include handsome business men in sharp suits? That way we could all agree that hippies have ruined our country.

AF

 

[HudsonHawk]

There's an idea. Since we're already defining "hippies" as being every street bum, prostitute and convicted criminal that ever took breath in California, why not expand the definition a little more to include handsome business men in sharp suits? That way we could all agree that hippies have ruined our country.

AF

Ah hell, just include everyone born between 1946 and 1964. That way we don't miss anyone's contributions.

 

[Feraud]

"ALL POWER TO THE....oh, wait a minute, we already *have* all the power."

Oh not the poor oppressed hard working white male. They built.. I mean they had underpaid, non-union workers and immigrants build this great country so they could parade around and prove with other people's hard work anyone can succeed in America.

There's an idea. Since we're already defining "hippies" as being every street bum, prostitute and convicted criminal that ever took breath in California, why not expand the definition a little more to include handsome business men in sharp suits? That way we could all agree that hippies have ruined our country.

AF

No pickpocket or house thief ever stole as much as the Bernie Madoffs or Marc Dreirers of this country. There needs to be a special designation for these psychopathic monsters in bespoke suits.

Ah hell, just include everyone born between 1946 and 1964. That way we don't miss anyone's contributions.

Let's brand 'em all with a big H on their shoulders so everyone knows who to blame!

 

[LizzieMaine]

No pickpocket or house thief ever stole as much as the Bernie Madoffs or Marc Dreirers of this country. There needs to be a special designation for these psychopathic monsters in bespoke suits.

I think Robespierre had the right idea. But you know those sans-culottes, with their baggy pants and their stupid caps.

 

[Feraud]

Right. If that book doesn't have the right cover, the content doesn't matter.

 

[Edward]

Basically the age old maxim that an Enemy of an Enemy is a Friend (at least for the time being).

That's the one. You'd think humanity would have learned how that goes dow by the second or third time, but no....

Touche Edward! Blaming hippies for all that is wrong in the world is like blaming skateboarding punks on the Lower East Side NYC circa 1980-1985 for the decline in Western Civilization. You may as well beat up handicapped children while you're at it.

As les Francais would say.... Precisement!

Handsome businessmen in sharp suits have done more to ruin this country than any pot smoking 18 year old listening to Hendrix.

Well, quite. But let's not drag Private Hendrix of the 101st Airborne down with the stoners, eh?

 

[jamespowers]

Handsome businessmen in sharp suits have done more to ruin this country than any pot smoking 18 year old listening to Hendrix.

Agreed.

 

[jamespowers]

You can be a liberal, and not be a radical. You can have long hair, listen to Janis and not be a dirty hippie. That wasn’t the point.

Agreed! That wasn’t the point. It was also not the point that helping people is a fine thing. The thing was that hippies are a drag on society when they do not work, smoke dope all day, do not wash etc. etc. If the people you think are hippies do not fit in that group then they aren’t hippies. They are something else.
Come out here. I will SHOW you hippies. What you have there that is functional is not hippiedom.

 

[ChiTownScion]

Touche Edward! Blaming hippies for all that is wrong in the world is like blaming skateboarding punks on the Lower East Side NYC circa 1980-1985 for the decline in Western Civilization. You may as well beat up handicapped children while you're at it.

Agreed. I'd like to think that a serious discussion of what is then vs. what is now could offer more substance than what Grandpa Abe usually musters:

 

[dh66]

I've been catching up on this discussion lately, and some excellent points have been made. It's good to know sometimes that time spent here is worthwhile.

Handsome businessmen in sharp suits have done more to ruin this country than any pot smoking 18 year old listening to Hendrix.

This pretty much sums it all up.

 

[dh66]

I’m not a fan of the hippie aesthetic or the often casual relationship to drug use that came in their wake in any way, but something that frightens me far more than the occasional whiff of patchouli or weed and the sound of some culturally appropriated prayer beads is enthusiastic de-humanizing and demonizing of a whole swath of people to satisfy the need for Someone To Blame. Scapegoating propaganda is scapegoating propaganda, no matter what corner or country or era it comes from.

This long ominous shadow of the Hippie may be a nice and tidy and satisfying Boogie Man of all ills, and can also serve as a extremely paper thin way to covertly bring politics into discussions (cite the corrosive influence of The Hippies and you haven’t actually said the word “liberal” so you get a pass?) – but it’s also cartoonish and one dimensional and too often equates appearance with motive and worth.

Some of these (apparently nefarious) extant Hippies are my friends, neighbors and clients. I’m surrounded by the most concentrated example of the species in this part of the country, I’m sure. I live in a notoriously liberal college town in Ohio, with a long history of social activism. Formed in the mid 1800s, Antioch became the first college in the country to admit both nonwhites and women with equal status to white men. Coretta Scott King attended here. And it has truly stopped the clock in the late 60s and most people here are pretty proud of that fact.

But it’s not just the depressing amount of tie-dye sold in town or countless Grateful Dead stickers on cars that’s survived, it’s not just the outer package; they’ve also managed to maintain the better aspects of the 60s movement all these years, which yes, I feel are noble instincts – the desire for peace, fairness, caring for each other and simplicity in way of life. Sure, maybe it was and still is naïve, and I have no idea if in the larger sense of things whether they had more positive impact than negative in the world, but these examples of the species certainly never sold out. Or opted out. Not everyone in that period drugged up and dropped out. Or later cynically and hypocritically went out to make big bucks and screw those supposed ideals. These people I know personally continue to try and help people both by chosen professions and vigorous volunteering, all these decades later, and in a hands-on way. They don’t just write checks occasionally and pat themselves on the back. They literally work to make peoples lives better. Most live in modest ways. And they fight for a true community here in a way I’ve not experienced anywhere else. They are not selfish, self serving do-nothing hedonists. The tone of the whole town is set by the college’s motto which is: "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity." My partner and I feel safe here, cared about and supported. But they are undeniably are, and would personally identify, as “Hippies”. Would I rather they’d cut their hair and lose the charming Birkenstocks/socks combo? You betcha. But the trade off is well worth it. And far more important.

You can always, always find people to fulfill negative stereotypes in any group you want to. That never justifies the stereotype. I don’t know the people who routinely get sneered at around here, I don’t recognize them. If people are layabouts and worthless good for nothings, that’s what they are because of their choices and actions. Long hair and liking Janis Joplin means nothing more conclusive than a tolerance for loud noise and saved money from the barber’s.

If the pendulum swung too hard when those 60s kids rejected the stifling, hypocritical, biased aspects of the Era and too many worthwhile things were also rejected and abandoned along the way (and I concede that argument), that’s truly unfortunate and there are aspects for us to try to recapture. But treating many well meaning people as a literal cancer, and to “Other” and “Them” a whole generation of people? Well, it might make you feel better, but doesn’t actually change a damned thing to make life better for any of us now.

My hat's off to you. You bring up fine points, and your assessment is pretty spot on.
Singling out 'the other' and blaming them for whatever is a sure fire way to advance an agenda.