The general decline in standards today

[Zombie_61]

I agree, here in the UK, upto the early 1960s we had national service where young men had to do 18-24 months in the Army, Royal Navy or Royal Air Force...

Back in the late 70s I interviewed for a job at a local hospital with a woman who was born, and grew up, in Scotland. During the interview she seemed puzzled by the fact that I was applying for a job at the age of 17. When I finally asked why, she replied by asking if military service wasn't mandatory for someone my age in the U.S., and was a little surprised when I told her no. I don't know how long she'd lived in the U.S. or how long she'd been working at that hospital (I'd guess she was in her 40s at the time), but given her management position and the ages of some of the staff I thought it was odd that she hadn't learned this before speaking with me.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I've always been strongly in favor of some kind of compulsory national service for both young men and young women. There is nobody in the world more self-absorbed than the typical American 18-to-22 year old, and there is nobody in the world more desperately in need of being taught once and for all that they are not, in fact, the center of the universe. Being shown there are things and principles in the world that are much greater than themselves would be a a good way to do that. I don't necessarily believe military service is the best way to accomplish that, but I sure would like to see the CCC come back. Hard, productive manual labor in the woods would be just the ticket.

instead of

 

[Touchofevil]

We have the California Conservation Corp out here which was modeled after the Civilian Conservation Corp. It has proven to be great option for a number of my students.

 

[jamespowers]

We have the California Conservation Corp out here which was modeled after the Civilian Conservation Corp. It has proven to be great option for a number of my students.

Yeah big difference from the photo above:

Oh wait that is right the CCC in this state is a joke. lol lol The guy you can't see is leaning on a shovel while drinking PBR. lol lol Lots of dope smoking in the forestry service out here. :rofl:

 

[Touchofevil]

Yeah big difference from the photo above:

Oh wait that is right the CCC in this state is a joke. lol lol The guy you can't see is leaning on a shovel while drinking PBR. lol lol Lots of dope smoking in the forestry service out here. :rofl:

Actually, they drug test which has helped some of them give up their pot-loving ways.

 

[sheeplady]

I would gladly support a reincarnation of the CCC. Many of the parks they built are falling into shambles because of lack of upkeep.

I would support providing those who served two years in the CCC or two years in the military "honorably" with free trade school or free 30 credits (all grades must be passing, student pays for all failing coursework) at the acepted state college of choice. This would and should not affect financial aid.

I am willing to pay for this too, as I think it would solve many problems of unequal access to college and the trades, crumbling parks, cost of college, crime and poverty, wayward youth, etc. I'd also support being able to go in at 16 and have the option for students to earn a GED at night.

We go to letchworth state park every year and it is abysmal the number of things that are falling apart.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Agreed on all counts. Our state parks here, many of which were originally built by the CCC, are understaffed and undermaintained. And given their importance to the tourist economy, you'd think people would view a program to keep them up as an investment, not a burden.

I'd like to see two years of CCC service as a requirement for the granting of any college degree -- serve your hitch before entering school, or in three-month installments over four summers, whichever works for you -- but either way, it would be compulsory. No exemptions except in cases of physical disability -- and even in those cases there should be a requirement for office/support work. Hard work in the fresh air should be as much a part of a well-rounded education as cracking the books -- and it might very well cut back on the pointless debauchery that's part of the modern "college experience."

 

[jamespowers]

Actually, they drug test which has helped some of them give up their pot-loving ways.

I see. Do they alcohol test?

 

[sheeplady]

I'd like to see two years of CCC service as a requirement for the granting of any college degree -- serve your hitch before entering school, or in three-month installments over four summers, whichever works for you -- but either way, it would be compulsory. No exemptions except in cases of physical disability -- and even in those cases there should be a requirement for office/support work. Hard work in the fresh air should be as much a part of a well-rounded education as cracking the books -- and it might very well cut back on the pointless debauchery that's part of the modern "college experience."

The only issue I can see with this is how students who depend on summer work can support themselves. I was imagining that the CCC program would pay a little spending money like they did in the past (maybe $20 a week) but provide meals, clothing (uniforms), and room and board. Most of the "pay" would be the free college credits or free trade school education. But I'd also have no problems if college education was free or near free in return for a certain portion of work for this country. If you upped it to two years of credits, then the summers for college students would be no challenge.

I know if I had a good summer back when I was in college I could earn around $5,000-6,000 by doing full time work, part time salary work teaching/ tutoring, and temp work (doing things like setting up chairs at graduation, cleaning before students came back, etc.). My tuition at the time was about $10,000 (average) a year. That meant I earned most of my money in the summer for tuition, and I'd want to make sure that the CCC would pay as well in reimbursement, if not better. I don't imagine the CCC to be a 40-hour-a-week type gig- just like I didn't earn $5,000 in the summer working a 40 hour week. We should be making degrees and training easier for achieve financially.

I would want to make sure that having young people serve in something like the CCC didn't make obtaining an education harder for those who already find it difficult to pay for college. It should make it easier for hardworking kids/adults of any background to get an education (be it a 4-year degree, 2-year degree, or advanced tradesperson training).

But I would want some serious overhaul of the college credits are handled for those who serve/ have served. I've seen far too many past and present service people get shortchanged in the way the military handles these now thanks to bureaucracy. There needs to be some serious overhaul.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

I've seen far too many past and present service people get shortchanged in the way the military handles these now thanks to bureaucracy. There needs to be some serious overhaul.

Bureaucrats! The first people I would like to see spend at least a month or two out of the year digging ditches in exchange for their lavish benefits and job security that's practically unheard of in private industry.

 

[ChiTownScion]

Hard work in the fresh air should be as much a part of a well-rounded education as cracking the books -- and it might very well cut back on the pointless debauchery that's part of the modern "college experience."

Debauchery has been part of the university experience since the Middle Ages. Gaudeamus igitur! :cheers1:

How much of a part it is within the life of any individual varies, but not knowing where to draw that line can mean the difference between academic success and failure. Drinking yourself out of school can happen, and it's not a pleasant thing to experience. On the other hand, a night out for dinner and drinks with good friends, great conversation, and good fellowship is a great relief to the academic grind. Knowing what constitutes too much of a good thing is a lesson we all have to learn, and is part of growing up.

 

[Harp]

Debauchery has been part of the university experience since the Middle Ages. Gaudeamus igitur! :cheers1:

Suum cuique. :cheers1:

 

[ChiTownScion]

Personally, I don't think that the CCC would work today for a lot of reasons. The insurance companies or government bureaucrats would have a fit over liability issues, for starters, and the idea of putting one's career on hold for two years would bring on an outcry. Sad to say this, but people are too damned spoiled to embrace the idea in this day and age.

The Great Depression humbled this nation to its knees, and while such an experience may have been cathartic after the arguably self indulgent Twenties, it was a painful period that destroyed too many lives. Not sure that it'd be worth it to relive those years, as much as I appreciate the self sacrifice and determination of those who survived them.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Debauchery has been part of the university experience since the Middle Ages. Gaudeamus igitur! :cheers1:

How much of a part it is within the life of any individual varies, but not knowing where to draw that line can mean the difference between academic success and failure. Drinking yourself out of school can happen, and it's not a pleasant thing to experience. On the other hand, a night out for dinner and drinks with good friends, great conversation, and good fellowship is a great relief to the academic grind. Knowing what constitutes too much of a good thing is a lesson we all have to learn, and is part of growing up.

I'm all for good friends, great conversation, and good fellowship, and have never needed alcohol as a catalyst for any of them. But then, I never went to college.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Personally, I don't think that the CCC would work in this day and age for a lot of reasons. The insurance companies or government bureaucrats would have a fit over liability issues, for starters, and the idea of putting one's career on hold for two years would bring on an outcry. Sad to say this, but people are too damned spoiled to embrace the idea in this day and age.

On the other hand, a lot of these kids are taking "gap years" to loaf around coffee shops pretending to write novels or daydreaming about being in bands. Building roads and chopping wood would be a much, much more productive use of their time.

The Great Depression humbled this nation to its knees, and while such an experience may have been cathartic after the arguably self indulgent Twenties, it was a painful period that destroyed too many lives. Not sure that it'd be worth it to relive those years, as much as I appreciate the self sacrifice and determination of those who survived them.

There's another humbling coming. It's inevitable.

 

[Harp]

There's another humbling coming. It's inevitable.

It is here now. videtur mihi....

 

[Auld Edwardian]

Bureaucrats! The first people I would like to see spend at least a month or two out of the year digging ditches in exchange for their lavish benefits and job security that's practically unheard of in private industry.

Here Here! Except I would like to amend the motion to read " That their benefits are to reflect an average of those in the private sector, in addition to digging ditches!"

 

[sheeplady]

Personally, I don't think that the CCC would work today for a lot of reasons. The insurance companies or government bureaucrats would have a fit over liability issues, for starters, and the idea of putting one's career on hold for two years would bring on an outcry. Sad to say this, but people are too damned spoiled to embrace the idea in this day and age.

I think this is totally a cultural thing as in other cultures such a career delay isn't viewed as poorly as in ours. Other countries still have conscription (Singapore and Israel, although not many actually serve in Israel) and I know of at least one religion (Mormonism) that encourages one to two years of service in the faith.

It also wasn't that long ago that conscription of young men was required in many countries- only a generation ago. Not in the U.S., but in many parts of the world it was.

 

[Fastuni]

Indeed. A few years ago mandatory (male) military or civilian service was abrogated in Germany. However service in either of the two was dependant on a military medical exam... shortly before the abrogation they took in only around 20%. Women could volunteer.

The civilian service (originally only for those refusing to serve in the military) was replaced with the Bundesfreiwilligendienst (Federal Voluntary Service)... mostly working in care/assistance of sick, disabled, elderly etc. It is looked positively upon if one's curriculum vitae shows that one served for the public in one way or the other. However most young people avoid this at all costs... and see it also as a burden and delay in their glorious little careers.

 

[Touchofevil]

I see. Do they alcohol test?

I am not sure, but I do know of a student who was given the boot for coming back intoxicated to the dorms.