The general decline in standards today

[Atticus Finch]

My girlfriend's family could be the cover illustration for this thread.

Her mother and father raised four kids on one income. He was a blue collar factory worker and she was a stay-at-home mom. They lived in a 1200 square foot home and had one car. The kids all made good grades, had friends, were involved in sports and went to college. Now they have all moved away and are in their forties. One's a doctor, one's a nurse, one's an accountant and the youngest is in the construction business. To my knowledge, nobody ever had a criminal charge, nobody drinks (too much), nobody is on drugs and everybody has grandkids who are also doing great.

And Mom and Dad still live in their little house in Cudahy and they still share their one car.

AF

 

[Undertow]

After reading through some of these response, I think a great shot in the arm would be "Made in America".

"Made in America" would bring pride back into the country. It would bring jobs back. It might help give kids an image that there is more to life than a 1/1000000 chance of hitting stardom and being rich. I currently buy things that are "Made in America" over anything else, regardless of difference in cost.

 

[SGT Rocket]

I always buy Made in America when I can. I love my new Shruon glasses partly because they are made in America. I look at labels on everything that I buy from thumb/flash drives to clothing (Bill's Khakis). It's SUPER hard to find clothing made in America. I am willing to pay a premium for good quality made in America stuff.

I don't think I've found a flash drive yet made in the U.S.A.

If I can't find anything made in the U.S.A. I go to our WW2 Allies next, and so on. This may all be kind of OCD, but it's what I do.

 

[djd]

I think the made in America is all well and good (even though I'm in the UK!) but when money is tight people tend to buy the cheapest. I like to buy free range and organic food at the supermarket BUT over the last year as prices have gone up and up and money has got tighter and tighter, I now find myself looking for the bargains just to make sure I put food on the table ...

 

[SGT Rocket]

I think the made in America is all well and good (even though I'm in the UK!) but when money is tight people tend to buy the cheapest. I like to buy free range and organic food at the supermarket BUT over the last year as prices have gone up and up and money has got tighter and tighter, I now find myself looking for the bargains just to make sure I put food on the table ...

I do know what you mean. We keep kosher in my family. You can go into a store here and get non-kosher ground beef for about $2.75 a pound. Kosher ground beef costs us about $7.00 a pound. Kosher cheese is MUCH more expensive than non-kosher cheese.

We just try to figure out what is important and curb our spending on what isn't that important to us. Our home is relatively hot in the summer and relatively cool in the winter, so we cut costs there. Also, any clothing we get at thrift stores or Goodwill resale shops, or once in a while, a super good sale at JC Penny's. We buy used kids clothers and generally mend anything we can before buying something. Oh, and coupons, coupons, coupons; buying in bulk helps too. Also, no land line phone, no cable TV (ok we obviously still have internet! LOL Actually I would love to give up mine and my wife's cell phone and get a regular land line (it would be cheaper); but the wife is against it. :-(

Oh, and chicken! I paid $14.00 for eight boneless and skinless kosher chicken breast, and $22.00 for a big bag of kosher chicken nuggets just yesterday (kids like the nuggets, wife and I like the breast).

So, I agree with you on the crazy food prices! It's outrageous out there!! I've also read something the other day about rising food prices (big drought in northern France and all).

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

After reading through some of these response, I think a great shot in the arm would be "Made in America".

"Made in America" would bring pride back into the country. It would bring jobs back. It might help give kids an image that there is more to life than a 1/1000000 chance of hitting stardom and being rich. I currently buy things that are "Made in America" over anything else, regardless of difference in cost.

Another major challenge will be to rebuild an entire skilled workforce practically from scratch. Today the average age of an American factory or skilled worker is 55. One of the effects of the outsourcing of manufacturing jobs was less interest in learning a trade among young people. Many schools no longer offer shop courses. After all, why train for a job that hardly exists anymore? The result has been a severe shortage of workers with the requisite skills for these jobs which only provides further justification for more outsourcing.

As I might have said somewhere on another thread, today you'd have no difficulty finding a good doctor or lawyer but try finding a good carpenter, mechanic, or machinist who's American-born and under 40.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Remember all those dystopic science-fiction stories about desperate primitives living among the ruins of a grand civilization built by their ancestors -- a civilization lost because the latter generations forgot how to maintain the infrastructure? In just a few generations, it won't be fiction anymore. When everyone has a PhD, who'll keep the roads paved?

 

[AtomicEraTom]

Well, that touches on the over-regulation that is also hurting us.

Unfortunately, I'm not so sure about that. Because even if you could find American workers willing to work for less it still wouldn't be a viable option because American workers, regardless of how much they make, come with lots of paperwork attached. Anybody who runs a business -- even a one man operation like mine -- knows that paperwork (especially the government-mandated variety) can mean hours of nonproductive work which actually takes time away from the running of the business. That's why many large corporations have entire departments just for dealing with the red tape, a luxury that smaller businesses don't have.

 

[SGT Rocket]

Plus, I think, society seems to force people to go to college now-- instead of a technical school that they may be better suited for. I went to college in the late 80's very early 90's. Mainly because it was what I was supposed to do. I really like working with my hands, so college was probably not the best choice for me. From the time I graduated college until I decided to change professions, I felt I was a blue-collar man trapped in a white collar world. In the fall I'm finally going back to school in a profession where I can use my hands along with making good pay!---Hopefully!

I think the trick is, if you like working with your hands, try to get a skill/job in something that the big companies can't outsource to another country.

 

[JimWagner]

Plus, I think, society seems to force people to go to college now-- instead of a technical school that they may be better suited for. I went to college in the late 80's very early 90's. Mainly because it was what I was supposed to do. I really like working with my hands, so college was probably not the best choice for me. From the time I graduated college until I decided to change professions, I felt I was a blue-collar man trapped in a white collar world. In the fall I'm finally going back to school in a profession where I can use my hands along with making good pay!---Hopefully!

I think the trick is, if you like working with your hands, try to get a skill/job in something that the big companies can't outsource to another country.

That sounds like a great plan. Keep your mind open to the idea that you just might be able to combine those new skills with some business acumen down the road and make the ultimate break away from a big company into your own business.

The time is coming that with so many people going the college route and unable to really work with their hands that those who do work with their hands will be in much higher demand. Someone has to know how to fix the plumbing, the electrics, the cars and do all the custom work around those mini-mansions that their owners are incapable of. Think of it as the handyman as artist.

 

[Atticus Finch]

Plus, I think, society seems to force people to go to college now-- instead of a technical school that they may be better suited for.

I ran into one of my old high school teachers not long after I graduated from law school. When I explained that I had just passed the bar and was going to work for the Attorney General, she told me that she very proud of me....and that I had clearly become educated well beyond my means.

AF

 

[sheeplady]

The time is coming that with so many people going the college route and unable to really work with their hands that those who do work with their hands will be in much higher demand. Someone has to know how to fix the plumbing, the electrics, the cars and do all the custom work around those mini-mansions that their owners are incapable of. Think of it as the handyman as artist.

I think that the attitude that one has to be either college educated (white collar) or trade educated (blue collar) with no intermixing of skills to be highly undesirable.

I, for one, see nothing wrong with being a tradesperson with a college education (having a 2-4 year degree in areas like engineering or business would benefit most tradespeople, particularly those who want to start their own business, offer cutting edge services, etc.). College educated people should be able to understand most trades enough to at least inspect the work they hire, if not do the most basic of tasks themselves. This includes plumbing, electrical work, sewing/mending, carpentry, small engine repairs, gardening, car maintance, etc.

I'm a college educated female, and I can do most of the trades stuff on that list reasonably well. I'm slow, it might not look the best, and I might have to look things up in a manual, reference book, or online, but I can do it well enough to get by.

 

[Puzzicato]

Plus, I think, society seems to force people to go to college now-- instead of a technical school that they may be better suited for. I went to college in the late 80's very early 90's. Mainly because it was what I was supposed to do. I really like working with my hands, so college was probably not the best choice for me. From the time I graduated college until I decided to change professions, I felt I was a blue-collar man trapped in a white collar world. In the fall I'm finally going back to school in a profession where I can use my hands along with making good pay!---Hopefully!

I think the trick is, if you like working with your hands, try to get a skill/job in something that the big companies can't outsource to another country.

This is really important. One of my nieces is currently doing a hairdressing apprenticeship. She did well at school and could have gone to university, but why on earth should she, when all she has ever wanted to do is be a hairdresser? It's a great job - very flexible if she has a family down the line, pretty transportable if she travels, enables entrepreneurship if that is her thing and is a bit protected from market downturns.

 

[JimWagner]

I'm a college educated female, and I can do most of the trades stuff on that list reasonably well. I'm slow, it might not look the best, and I might have to look things up in a manual, reference book, or online, but I can do it well enough to get by.

Just being interested in doing those tasks and willing to roll up your sleeves and learn by doing is the truly important thing. A tip of the hat to you.

 

[djd]

Very good point. Society only needs so many university educated people- especially true if the standards are lowered anyway in order that everyone can go...

I envy people with real skills and a trade. I think I'm doing well if I can put up a shelf straight!

 

[LizzieMaine]

The problem modern society faces is largely one of assuming that "other people" will always be around to do the distasteful/menial jobs that need to be done. But what happens when those "other people" get sick and tired of being "others?"

 

[sheeplady]

Just being interested in doing those tasks and willing to roll up your sleeves and learn by doing is the truly important thing. A tip of the hat to you.

Well, I haven't electrocuted myself.... yet. I'm planning on tackling the basement (big project) using a book, with my husband reviewing my work when I am all finished to make sure it is not dangerous. In about a year from now, if nobody on the FL hears from me for about a month, come check the basement. I might be cooked to a crisp.

You don't know you can't until you try. But I think a good knowledge of the trades, enough to have at least tried something, gives people a better appreciation for what tradespeople do, how quickly they can do it, how creative they are, and how beautiful their work is. People are always complaining about the price of work they hire out. I think that if they knew how complex, hard, and dangerous that type of work was that they would shut their mouths.

 

[djd]

Plus the 'other people' are often imigrants who are happy to do those crappy jobs.... Then people start whining about them coming over here and taking our jobs .... That'll be the jobs that you didn't want to do right??

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I followed in the foot steps of most in my family. I went straight from high school to the factory. I would like to go to college, but it's just too pricey. I'm just at the plant while helping build up the family business and then I'm going to that full-time. Entrepreneurship is a rare thing these days. Being part of a big company is nice. I do like Union Benefits, Health Insurance, etc, etc.

I think that such security can lead to complacency and being afraid to take a risk. Young people don't want to take a risk, which surprises me. It's hurting this nations future. The young people are the ones who 'have nothing to lose' and should be trying to strike it big. I am hoping to do it now before I'm married and settled down and can't take a risk that could ruin my family. I do think it's hurting us that nobody wants to take risks anymore.

 

[Bluebird Marsha]

I'm not sure that a college education and a job "in the trades" are mutually incompatible. Maybe back when only the well-to-do went to college, that might have been the case, but I don't see a disconnect in a plumber who has a philosophy degree but works installing bathrooms. I had a history professor who told us the first day of class that his job was to provide us with best education he could- what we did with it was up to us. That being said, spending $100k+ on an art history degree when you have to take out a loan for all of it is insane. Some kids really need to be talked to before they incur that kind of debt. They'd be better off starving poetically in a garret. That's what artist's do while they're waiting tables.

I agree with AtomicEraTom on the risk issue. You SHOULD be taking risks when you're young. That's when you don't mind living in a shoebox with three other kids on the chance you'll make it. Let's be honest, "taking a chance" in 21st century Canada, Europe, or the U.S. (and a host of other places) never includes the possibility of starving in the cold.(unless you're very stupid).

I have a dream for when I've bought a house. My plumbers will be horribly competent and not trash the area when doing the job. And I'll admire them for their talent.