The general decline in standards today

[ChiTownScion]

I hear that one quite a bit..."you don't have kids in school there, why do you care?" Because I'm paying for it.

Not only that, but aside from paying steep property taxes, the resale value of my home is greatly enhanced by the quality of the local schools. I'll gladly live with the steep taxes, but I do insist that the quality of the education be maintained- especially in math and the sciences.

One of the big pharm companies has a large corporate and research facility near here, and every year their ladder climbing types are moving in from elsewhere. It creates a demand in housing among those with kids seeking quality education for them. So, I'll gladly pay more- if it's prudently spent- with the idea that it's an investment in the long term.

I faced the flipside of this where I went to university for my undergrad. The local yokels were notoriously cheap when it came to their public schools. The kids had no decent sport or arts programs, no band, no orchestra, etc. They hired academic subject teachers on the cheap, and got exactly what they paid for. They held a referendum that would have raised the average property owner's tax bill a measly twenty five bucks a year, and personally, I was glad to vote for the increase, as was my right. But the locals held meetings featuring little old ladies howling, "I'll lose my home !!" etc. (Call me a hard hearted ba***rd, but if you're $25.00 from the edge from losing your home you may wish to consider another housing option.) It galled me that the local kids had to compete for university admissions with kids from schools such as New Trier or Lake Forest, where they had excellent science labs, teachers with advanced degrees, and even student run radio and TV stations.

I remember the claim that some made that "we didn't pay taxes here, so we shouldn't vote in the referendum." I called BS on that one: every pizza, beer, candy bar, etc. that we bought from a local business was going in part to pay their tax obligation- so yes, we were paying. It cemented a life long attitude about paying taxes for better schools: be willing to invest in the future as others did for my future, but also insist that it be prudently spent.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Exactly! I still do even though I pay EXTRA to send mine to private school because the ones I am paying for SUCK.:doh:

A cautionary tale for those who think we should spend even more money on schools. California is proof that higher property taxes (among the highest in the nation) do not necessarily translate into a corresponding improvement in the quality of the schools.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The converse, though, can also be true. My high school lost its accreditation because of a pennywise-pound foolish approach to budgeting, and it took more than a decade to get it back. And all those cuts didn't really keep too many peoples' names out of the town report.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

I'm all for budget cuts if it reduces or eliminates waste but unfortunately that never happens because whatever cuts are made are of a retaliatory nature by administrators and bureaucrats in self-preservation mode. Anything important will be deliberately cut as their way of saying, "don't f*** with us." It's like the sheriff who instead of holding off a year on buying new police cars or toys for the SWAT team threatens to close down the jail and release prisoners when faced with budget cuts.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Our problem was more basic -- the building itself was falling in. I can remember sitting in a study hall and actually seeing a piece of the ceiling collapse, just missing two kids who were sniffing glue out of a paper bag in the back of the room. It probably wouldn't have hurt them much, but I suppose that's beside the point.

 

[Fading Fast]

My wife has a "disapproving school teacher," stare. We were doing our weekly shop, a young boy, six, maybe seven, running down the aisles, arms outstretched, screeching at the top of his voice, collided into my wife. The kid got the withering stare, pure napalm, for a good ten seconds he held defiant eye contact with that stare, before his eyes welled up.

My wife walked on and left him. At that moment I heard a female say "What do you mean, she looked at you?" My wife, with her Jessica Rabbit red hair, witchy green eyes and, oh that scowl, can have grown men wimpering. The boy was no contest.

My parents' rule was that we had to "act like little adults" anytime we were in adult public places (so playgrounds or backyards, etc. were different). We didn't run, yell, scream, push, whine, etc. - and I can tell you this was fully enforced. We would be told to behave (and a look from my father was usually all it took) or we were removed from the situation and punished. Also, we would have to wait several times before we would be allowed to go again. My parents explained that we had no right to bother / disturb other people. This was drilled into us.

My mom has told me that other than my brother throwing a fork in a restaurant once and me screaming at three in a candy store (I have to take her word for it) - we were very behaved (which is my memory because I knew that I wouldn't stay and couldn't come back if I didn't behave - and I might have to sit in a car by myself for hours - I know they don't do that today - if I misbehaved).

So here is my question: in the '60s and before were kids made to be better behaved in public than today? Or does it just feel that way to me because I had to be so well behaved? Is this something that has declined or is my view skewed by my upbringing?

 

[LizzieMaine]

Depends on the social class, the venue, and the situation. There are plenty of eyewitness accounts testifying to the fact that kids attending baseball games in the Era, for example, were capable of astonishing rampages -- it was a common thing for example, if a player refused to sign autographs, for the kids to squirt the players with fountain pen ink and call them all sorts of interesting ethnic slurs. There are plenty of patrons who attend our theatre who came here as kids in the 1940s, 1950s, and 1960s, who recall with amusement how they'd run wild until Ida the fear-inducing manager came down the aisle with her flashlight and dragged them out by the ear.

Back around 1964, my mother wheeled me thru a grocery store in a shopping carriage as I pointed at every item and every person in the store and yelled "SH*T!" She didn't belt me one, although that was her usual practice. Instead she smiled at everyone who looked shocked or insulted, and said "I'm babysitting. Isn't she a brat?"

Another memorable incident involved one of my childhood friends, a known hellion whose favorite activity after Sunday School was to grab the rope for the steeple bell, which hung by the front door between the two staircases up to the sanctuary, and swing on it from stairway to stairway. The minister's wife finally caught him at it, and pealed out in a loud voice GET OFF THAT G-D ROPE! This is the same kid who once induced me to sneak into the vestry kitchen with him and drink all the grape juice out of the Communion tray.

As for nowadays, the kids in the restaurants I eat at tend to be as well behaved as they ever were -- I don't see them running around waving zip guns or kicking people in the shins or anything. The greasy spoon where I get breakfast sometimes has a lobster tank next to the counter, and one parent who was tired of hearing her kid fuss threatened to throw him in with the lobsters. That settled him down pretty quick.

 

[Dennis Young]

I usually do this:
https://youtu.be/t7Y49bLVeN0

Lol! I believe I'd leave and wouldn't bother that woman again. To hell with those cookies.

Those are all good suggestions. Seems like all too often parents are oblivious and then there are those who are highly offended and confrontational if you dare say anything to THEIR child. And occasionally a parent acts as if they want to get physically violent over the issue. Don’t you TOUCH my child….don’t you tell ME how to raise my child, etc.
I took my mom to a restaurant a few months back. She’s in one of those electric wheelchairs and it was crowded. We were waiting for our meal and this little boy, about 8 kept running up and down the aisles. Every time he passed by, he would reach out and twist the knob that control’s my mom’s chair, then run on by. He did this several times and it was really bothering her and me. Those chairs are powerful and can hurt you.
I kept trying to find his parents but in the crowd I couldn’t tell where they were. No one was paying any attention to the little boy. He passed by and I finally told him ‘NO’, but it did no good. I couldn’t very well snatch him up by the arm (like I wanted to) or I might be writing this post from jail.
Never did find the parents. Eventually they moved on, but for about 10 minutes that kid was unbearable.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

I faced the flipside of this where I went to university for my undergrad. The local yokels were notoriously cheap when it came to their public schools. The kids had no decent sport or arts programs, no band, no orchestra, etc.

The funny thing is while I love art I don't have a major problem with a possible lack of art or music programs because I've found that art is such a passion that you either have or don't have and those who have it will find some way to satisfy that passion with or without an art program so I don't tend to worry about that. In fact most of the people I know who have some artistic or musical ability were self-taught. I taught myself how to draw when I was a kid and only took one or two art classes in school which I found to be a bit boring because I was already at a more advanced level.

My wife has a "disapproving school teacher," stare. We were doing our weekly shop, a young boy, six, maybe seven, running down the aisles, arms outstretched, screeching at the top of his voice, collided into my wife. The kid got the withering stare, pure napalm, for a good ten seconds he held defiant eye contact with that stare, before his eyes welled up..

I've heard so much about the legendary "Look" that is effective in dealing with unruly children. My problem is what if you don't have "The Look"?

 

[LizzieMaine]

My problem is what if you don't have "The Look"?

It can develop with the passing of the years. My grandfather's favorite tactic for quelling the unruly was to jut out his lower dentures at us. A one-eyed local grocer would pop out his glass eye. Either captured our immediate attention.

 

[Fading Fast]

I am sure you all are right that you can develop "the look," but the God-given ones are probably still the best. My Dad and my high school physics teacher were tap from above to have "a look" that could cause you to stop dead and see your life hang in the balance.

My mom on the other hand developed a pretty good fear-inducer, but even as kids, we knew hers was studied; whereas, my Dad's came from the core of his being and shot right to the core of your being without interference.

 

[vitanola]

See, and I don’t really care for musicals unless maybe Gene Kelly or Leslie Caron are in them. I still have a crush on her.
Also the music industry. I’m really ill-equipped to go into much depth on current music. The 60s and 70s were very good eras for music, but they had very suggestive lyrics at times. I think, however there’s a difference between the song “Feel like making love” and “Cop Killer’s lyrics which go:
I got my twelve gauge sawed off
I got my headlights turned off
I'm 'bout to bust some shots off
I'm 'bout to dust some cops off

Cop killer, better you than me
Cop killer, (blank) police brutality
Cop killer, I know your family's grievin'
(blank) 'em
Cop killer, but tonight we get even
I sanitized the lyrics a bit. And there are worse songs than that which are targeting our youth.

If you think that song describes mayhem, try some of May Irwin's stuff from the 'Nineties!

 

[vitanola]

Actually, I always found sixties and seventies music to be intolerably puerile -- even when I was its target audience I hated it. I don't listen to modern music at all, and I've got absolutely no interest in it. I don't think there's been a decent song written in the United States since 1942.

Amen Sister!

 

[HudsonHawk]

I've heard so much about the legendary "Look" that is effective in dealing with unruly children. My problem is what if you don't have "The Look"?

In that case, we got the switch. And welts.

 

[vitanola]

I would place Fury right up there with Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers, and Platoon as among some of the great war portrayals.

You missed "The Big Parade" the battle scenes of which are chilling.

 

[jamespowers]

I'm all for budget cuts if it reduces or eliminates waste but unfortunately that never happens because whatever cuts are made are of a retaliatory nature by administrators and bureaucrats in self-preservation mode. Anything important will be deliberately cut as their way of saying, "don't f*** with us." It's like the sheriff who instead of holding off a year on buying new police cars or toys for the SWAT team threatens to close down the jail and release prisoners when faced with budget cuts.

Yes, bureaucracy is criminal.

 

[LizzieMaine]

As far as "The Look" goes, no one could beat Benny Goodman -- whose look, known as "The Ray," would make grown men wet their pants. Especially if they were behind the beat.

 

[LizzieMaine]

You missed "The Big Parade" the battle scenes of which are chilling.

I've tried to get a screening of that here many times -- especially because it was Andrew Wyeth's favorite movie, and its esthetic played an important role in the development of his artistic style. Our local museum, which largely exists for the greater glory of all things Wyeth, has so far resisted my suggestion that they sponsor a screening. Their loss.

And if you don't tear up at the end of "Big Parade," you're not the kind of human being I want to know.

 

[vitanola]

The article I refer to didn’t mention gay men.

You don't have much historical background, do you? Code words. Sort of like a reference to a fellow who wears a red necktie, or a Jellybean. This stuff needs to be understood in its historical context. When you've read a couple of decades running of turn-of-the-century magazines and immerse yourself in the popular culture of the day, which was very different from either post-war or late pre-war popular culture you will better understand.

 

[vitanola]

That's my biggest beef with the Electoral College. That and the fact that I live in a four-vote state, which fairly screams "it doesn't matter if you vote or not."

As goes Maine, so goes the country, no? Remember '32?