The general decline in standards today

[jamespowers]

There's internet culture for you. OH WOW GET THIS ON YOO TOOB DOOD!

I can see a case for some serious intervention there. :doh:

 

[Harp]

We did ourselves a great disservice by allowing Ronald Reagan to abolish the FCC Fairness Doctrine, which was unanimously ruled as constitutional (Red Lion Broadcasting Co. v. Federal Communications Commission, 395 U.S. 367, 1969).

Wickard vs. Filbur, is an interesting 1942 double-edged ruling which; hopefully, tempered by the First Amendment
and judicial common sense reasoning will not become a thief.
Any thoughts? And Citizens United; McCutcheon vs. Federal Election Commission?

 

[Harp]

If we had a mass movement I would submit the very first demand we should make would be reinstatement of the Fairness Doctrine, and find a way to extend it to cable and internet broadcasting as well. "But you're just trying to silence Rush/Bill/Shaun/Glenn/Rachel/Keith!" people will scream, depending on their point of view. Well, yes, yes I am. They are all part of the problem and they all need to just shut the hell up.

True, and I absolutely agree that the current system is a big part of the problem. What I'm suggesting is nothing short of a revolution, an actual revolution just like the one that started the country in the first place. Tear up that whole section of the Constitution and start over again. It's not the inspired word of God, it's a document thrashed out two hundred-odd years ago by a bunch of men who did the best they could under the circumstances, but had no way of knowing how things would eventually work out. The Founding Fathers were not gods, and God didn't guide their hands.

I hear in free speech the voice of Publius. And the more the merrier. Better free speech protected by the Constitution
than a stillness that sounded by Stalin and echoes with Putin.

Gladstone was correct-the American Constitution is the finest work struck by the mind of men.
Of course the Founders were not gods, nor did they ever claim divine status. But thank God that they existed.
And that the Constitution lives today.

 

[jamespowers]

I hear in free speech the voice of Publius. And the more the merrier. Better free speech protected by the Constitution
than a stillness that sounded by Stalin and echoes with Putin.

Gladstone was correct-the American Constitution is the finest work struck by the mind of men.
Of course the Founders were not gods, nor did they ever claim divine status. But thank God that they existed.
And that the Constitution lives today.

Agreed. And don't forget the Bill of Rights.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Agreed. And don't forget the Bill of Rights.

I absolutely agree with both of you on that. I don't call for tearing up the whole thing -- but the Electoral College section is in my view a relic of an eighteenth-century mindset that does us no good at all. It has institutionalized the idea of an inflexible two-party system that is the very core of the problem today. Tear it up and start that section right from scratch.

As for the Fairness Doctrine, it wasn't rejected on grounds of Constitutionality. It was rejected because money spoke louder than common sense, by an FCC chairman who was wholly in the pocket of the industry.

I look at the Constitution the same way I look at the engine in my Plodge. It's a wonderful piece of engineering, and I love it to pieces. But driving it around with worn-out rings and broken pistons only wastes fuel, burns oil, and eventually gets you broken down completely. The electoral section of the Constitution is way overdue for getting its cylinders bored, its valves ground, a new set of pistons and a new set of rings. Then watch it go.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Of course the Founders were not gods, nor did they ever claim divine status. But thank God that they existed.
And that the Constitution lives today.

Unfortunately, though, there are many today who do view them as gods in everything but name, and view their work as something handed down from Sinai on stone tablets engraved by the hand of the Great I Am Himself. Such ones are the High Priests of the cult of the Golden Calf. And you don't have to look far to find them.

 

[Dennis Young]

Time to get back to real world examples of the Decline:
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...aught-video-warning-graphic-article-1.2145599

This happens and no one lifts a finger. Absolutely savage and disgusting. :doh:

Ok, now that we arent talking about politics anymore I guess I can comment. This *is* disgusting and appears to be a situation where the bystanders really may have wanted to see the beating. Its probable that they were shocked, but still I think some part of them wanted to see the beating. I think we’ve become desensitized as a culture to violence. Question is….why?

 

[LizzieMaine]

It's been going on for quite a while. Basically, it all boils down to the breakdown of community, the idea that what happens to some unknown person I don't know or care about isn't important to me me me me me.

 

[ChiTownScion]

As for the Fairness Doctrine, it wasn't rejected on grounds of Constitutionality.

Quite the contrary. It was upheld, as I noted, in Red Lion Broadcasting Co. v. Federal Communications Commission, 395 U.S. 367 (1969). The decision was 8-0: Douglas did not participate in the opinion, but it's doubtful that he would have dissented. Claims that the Fairness Doctrine was an affront to the First Amendment thus are patently without merit.

 

[Dennis Young]

People can be selfish. It *is* the me generation. We have no concept of honor anymore. We’re self absorbed. Perhaps it can partially be attributed to the prevalence of the cell phones, tablets, I don’t know. I think the entertainment industry has played its part along with poor parenting. And a lot of folks came from bad backgrounds, broken homes. Really bad situations. These people might try to take it out on others. But I’ll bet you almost anything if we were to be able to look into the assailant’s background, we’d find that they just weren’t taught the concept of honor or how to show respect for others. You know, there’s just nothing honorable about beating up on a 15 year old kid.

 

[ChiTownScion]

The revolution should not involve tearing up the Constitution but going back to the original document without all the garbage attached to it. Start over from the beginning.

Start with the principle that we are not to commit combat military forces absent a declaration of war, a power reserved to Congress and last exercised against Italy and Germany in 1941.

The Founders likewise did not believe in maintaining a standing army: that ideal was jettisoned as soon as those pesky Seminoles (the tribes, not the college football team) became a force to be reckoned with. Thus began our problems with the military industrial complex.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Quite the contrary. It was upheld, as I noted, in Red Lion Broadcasting Co. v. Federal Communications Commission, 395 U.S. 367 (1969). The decision was 8-0: Douglas did not participate in the opinion, but it's doubtful that he would have dissented. Claims that the Fairness Doctrine was an affront to the First Amendment thus are patently without merit.

That can't be underlined enough. The supporters of abolishing the Doctrine have cloaked it in the idea of "extending free speech to the broadcast industry," but at no time did any court rule that the Doctrine was in fact a violation of the First Amendment. There was also no cry from the public for its abolition -- the only source for that argument was the National Association of Broadcasters, which saw dollar signs from paid political programming, if only they could cancel out the obligation to provide equal time.

The NAB is merely a trade and lobbying assocation. They are not constitutional scholars, and their only interest is billable time. They are *not* and have never been, concerned with the best interests of the American people.

 

[LizzieMaine]

People can be selfish. It *is* the me generation. We have no concept of honor anymore. We’re self absorbed. Perhaps it can partially be attributed to the prevalence of the cell phones, tablets, I don’t know. I think the entertainment industry has played its part along with poor parenting. And a lot of folks came from bad backgrounds, broken homes. Really bad situations. These people might try to take it out on others. But I’ll bet you almost anything if we were to be able to look into the assailant’s background, we’d find that they just weren’t taught the concept of honor or how to show respect for others. You know, there’s just nothing honorable about beating up on a 15 year old kid.

The thing with the Kitty Genovese case, though, is that these self-absorbed people in 1964 weren't "savages" from the street. They were nice, middle-class people in an eminently respectable neighborhood in a nice part of Queens. They were the kind of people we like to imagine people in the Era were. And yet -- they let that woman die. They heard her scream, and they ignored her. They "didn't want to get involved." I don't think all of them were examples of poor parenting, or lack of personal honor, or they saw "Scarface" or "The Public Enemy" on the Late Late Show too many times and it marred them. I think they just plain felt like -- "Hey, not my problem. I don't want to answer a lot of questions down at the precinct. Anyway, someone else will help her. It's not my responsiblity." And these were people born and raised in the Era. What was *their* problem?

I think postwar society produced a world so focused on the Self that it's surprising that kind of thing didn't happen more often. We're just seeing the late flowering of seeds that were planted sixty or seventy years ago.

As for the people in the video, I'm sure everybody here likes to think they would have done something if suddenly faced with a similar situation. We had a case here a few years ago where a purse snatcher grabbed a bag from a woman as she was coming out of the grocery store. There was a crowd of people standing around outside, going to their cars or whatever, the way you have any time of the day outside a supermarket. And one person -- a kid in his twenties, if I remember right -- chased the criminal down and tackled him and held him until the cops came. It's good that he did that. But what was wrong with the other dozen people who just stood there? Shock? Puzzlement? Being scared to get involved?

Who here can say, definitively, and with a minimum of macho chest-pounding, what they would do in such a situation. Who here has *been* in such a situation and can positively know for sure what they'd do?

 

[jamespowers]

Start with the principle that we are not to commit combat military forces absent a declaration of war, a power reserved to Congress and last exercised against Italy and Germany in 1941.

The Founders likewise did not believe in maintaining a standing army: that ideal was jettisoned as soon as those pesky Seminoles (the tribes, not the college football team) became a force to be reckoned with. Thus began our problems with the military industrial complex.

That principle works fine for me. It would have taken a plank out of hippies protests and support from outside their ranks. Committing advisors then troops didn't work--especially when they weren't in it to win it. :doh:

Not having a standing army when all those around you do is impossible. They were practical men and adapted to the situation. Just as they found the need to add the Bill of Rights.

 

[jamespowers]

Who here can say, definitively, and with a minimum of macho chest-pounding, what they would do in such a situation. Who here has *been* in such a situation and can positively know for sure what they'd do?

I didn't have to chase down the purse snatcher. Being in the right place just means putting out your foot so he can fly into a nice pole works much better. Take the purse; give it back to the victim and be done with it. I don't think anyone called the police that time either.:doh: I didn't stay around to see as the crook would likely want to press charges against ME. :doh:
Then again, I am that guy in the neighborhood who calls the police for the slightest problem to protect the neighborhood.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Good for you. Fortunately for all that you could get close enough to do that. But what happens when you're on the edge of the crowd? Is it OK to wait for someone else to stick out that foot?

 

[jamespowers]

Good for you. Fortunately for all that you could get close enough to do that. But what happens when you're on the edge of the crowd? Is it OK to wait for someone else to stick out that foot?

If you can do something to prevent a bad thing from happening then you should. It is that old axiom: "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

 

[Harp]

Unfortunately, though, there are many today who do view them as gods in everything but name, and view their work as something handed down from Sinai on stone tablets engraved by the hand of the Great I Am Himself. Such ones are the High Priests of the cult of the Golden Calf. And you don't have to look far to find them.

Theologically speaking, paganism is alive and well.

However, strict construction tethers law to the document itself; disallowing the introduction of inane constitutional penumbra.
And the work of the actual drafting of the Constitution is reflected in The Federalist Papers penned by Hamilton, Madison, and Jay,
long held as the primary source for discerning original intent.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Theologically speaking, paganism is alive and well.

However, strict construction tethers law to the document itself; disallowing the introduction of inane constitutional penumbra.
And the work of the actual drafting of the Constitution is reflected in The Federalist Papers penned by Hamilton, Madison, and Jay,
long held as the primary source for discerning original intent.

As long as you view TFP as notes on a work in progress, that's all well and good. But there are too many people who chapter-and-verse those as though they were the works of the Church Fathers, and they're bound and determined to put the Arian heresy in its place. You'll easily recognize their websites -- lots of portraits of men in powdered wigs, lots of flags, eagles, quill pens, Liberty Bells and other icons of the Most Holy Faith.

 

[LizzieMaine]

If you can do something to prevent a bad thing from happening then you should. It is that old axiom: "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

If we all lived by that, we wouldn't need this discussion, ever. But sadly, thruout human history, most people have not lived that way. Which is why Evil has gotten along so well down thru the centuries.