The general decline in standards today

[vitanola]

I'm going by memory, from Fran Grace's exhaustive biography "Carry A. Nation: Retelling The Life," published by Indiana University Press in 2001. I don't have my copy at hand, but as I remember she was quite clear that Sumalsky himself criticised the newspaper accounts and insisted heart failure was the cause of death. Unless you've got a death certificate to show me, I'm not convinced by the newspapers, which as I say had a strong anti-temperance bias in 1911. QUOTE]

Okay, I admit it: you motivated me to look into this, Lizzie.

I now have had the opportunity to purchase and read Fran Grace‘s Carry A. Nation: Retelling the Life. At no point does Grace present any references to direct evidence as to Nation’s cause of death.

Her sole source as to the cause of death being heart failure and not paresis is based upon a footnote in Herbert Asbury’s 1929 biography of Nation, based upon alleged private and unpublished correspondence between Asbury and Nation’s physician. [Ref. footnote 35, Chapter 10]. Grace does not bother to name the physician. Nor is any mention made by Grace as to the influence of the manufacturers of alcoholic beverages exercising influence over newspapers of the day to bring about an unfavorable account of Nation’s cause of death.

It is interesting as to how Grace herself describes Asbury’s Nation biography:

“The only serious biography published about her, Herbert Asbury’s Carrie Nation, was tainted by its Northeastern bias and dismissive attitude toward women.” [ref. p. 1].

This raises, of course, the issue as to why Grace deems Asbury’s work as unreliable as an account as to Nation’s life, but somehow, conclusive as to cause of death.

You would understand were you familiar with Ashbury's writing. He can be rather arch, and I suspect that Grace may not have quite gotten the joke at eighty years removal. Despite Ashbury's tone he was a thorough historian, and I would certainly have no qualms relying on him, particularly since he was a notorious anti-Prohibitionist, and confessed no great love for Nation and her ilk.

In addition to the excellent Nation biography you might well consider reading Ashbury's fascinating crime history "The Gangs of New York" (1927) and his magnum opus , the 1928 annotated version of Jerry Thomas' "The Bon Vivant's Companion, or How to Mix Drinks". Then of course ther is always "Up From Methodism", which is not entirely bereft of charm...

 

[vitanola]

Sorry, I can't read yellow!

Then it's best that you stay out of Hogan's Alley.

 

[LizzieMaine]

You would understand were you familiar with Ashbury's writing. He can be rather arch, and I suspect that Grace may not have quite gotten the joke at eighty years removal. Despite Ashbury's tone he was a thorough historian, and I would certainly have no qualms relying on him, particularly since he was a notorious anti-Prohibitionist, and confessed no great love for Nation and her ilk.

This is exactly why I'd think his views on Nation's cause of death would be worthy of credence: he was admittedly biased against her, her beliefs, and her background -- he seems to have been sort of a ten-cent Mencken when it came to anything that smacked of small-town, working-class America -- and if there had been any reason at all to go along with the "Carry died in a madhouse, driven insane by syphilis" rumors fostered by the newspapers and the anti-Prohibitionists, he would have leaped joyously upon them.

Grace, on the other hand, approaches the subject of Nation's life by putting her into the context of her era -- and into the context of American religious thought of the time, a period that not only produced the temperance movement but also things like the Methodist Social Creed, a statement of belief that not only affirmed opposition to the liquor traffic but also support for women's rights and organized labor. That was what, again going from memory, I found most interesting about her book. Carry wasn't a lone nut with a hatchet -- she reflected the radical edge of a very powerful mass movement made up largely of women, most of whom were taking a political stand for the first time in their lives. As I said at the beginning, the temperance movement was the true seedbed of twentieth century American feminism.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Now if this doesn't anger you...
I came upon this video of this piece of excrement destroying a World War II Purple Heart Medal all because "he was bored." And then the part that angers me the most is how this effwit is so proud of his handiwork that he callously tosses the medal symbolizing the sacrifice of our veterans in a corner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-QytCaEYeg

 

[LizzieMaine]

Worst of all, that's an issued medal, not surplus -- there's a name on the back. Or was.

It ought to be illegal to sell an issued Purple Heart.

 

[HudsonHawk]

It ought to be illegal to sell an issued Purple Heart.

It was until a couple of years ago. The SCOTUS ruled such restriction violated free speech.

 

[LizzieMaine]

It's still illegal to sell a Medal of Honor. The Purple Heart, and other medals awarded for valor should fall under the same protection-- if any jackass with fifty dollar is allowed to own one, it cheapens what the medal is supposed to represent.

 

[HudsonHawk]

It's still illegal to sell a Medal of Honor. The Purple Heart, and other medals awarded for valor should fall under the same protection-- if any jackass with fifty dollar is allowed to own one, it cheapens what the medal is supposed to represent.

I don't disagree.

On a side note, my uncle, 101st Airborne, jumped on D-day, wounded during Market Garden, threw his Purple Heart away because he didn't want to be reminded or have to talk about it. I figure he earned that right.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Sure, if the person who earned it wants to throw it away or return it to the government or whatever, that's their business. My objection is to having this sort of thing available on the retail market to anyone who wants to own one. It was illegal to sell full-size medals on the retail market until the early '90s, and it should be illegal again.

I remember an incident when I was a teenager, my brother and I walked into a little restaurant downtown, and he was wearing an Army jacket with sergeant's stripes sewn on the sleeve. Some middle-aged guy sitting at the counter shot him a look that spat fire and said "Did you EARN those?" I never forgot that, and ever since I've never liked the sight of snotty-nosed kids swanning around in military clothing with insignia attached.

 

[Harp]

On a side note, my uncle, 101st Airborne, jumped on D-day, wounded during Market Garden, threw his Purple Heart away because he didn't want to be reminded or have to talk about it.

Please convey my regards to your uncle (ex-101st Abn). I was hospitalized briefly last winter and my sisters cleaned my bachelor lairof an apartment-books, empty cans, and pizza boxes all over; and they found my Bronze Star and Purple Heart.
We didn't talk about this.
Fortunately, I had the foresight to dispose of some clothing a lady friend had left.
These would have been questioned endlessly.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

It's still illegal to sell a Medal of Honor. The Purple Heart, and other medals awarded for valor should fall under the same protection-- if any jackass with fifty dollar is allowed to own one, it cheapens what the medal is supposed to represent.

There was a minor scandal several years ago when it was discovered that the company who had the government contract to manufacture the Comgressional Medal of Honor was selling them on the side to collectors. On the other hand Purple Heart Medals were made by the US Mint.

 

[jamespowers]

There was a minor scandal several years ago when it was discovered that the company who had the government contract to manufacture the MoH was selling them on the side to collectors. On the other hand Purple Heart Medals were made by the US Mint.

Ho many did you buy? p

 

[Stearmen]

There was a minor scandal several years ago when it was discovered that the company who had the government contract to manufacture the Comgressional Medal of Honor was selling them on the side to collectors. On the other hand Purple Heart Medals were made by the US Mint.

I was offered one of those. I tried to turn him in, but no one would listen. He is still in business!

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I had an experience just this morning of the poor use of the English language, which would have annoyed by old schoolmasters. I saw my postman in the street and asked if he had any post for me. He said, "no mate you ain't got nothing.", poor vocabulary and double negatives.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Please convey my regards to your uncle (ex-101st Abn). I was hospitalized briefly last winter and my sisters cleaned my bachelor lairof an apartment-books, empty cans, and pizza boxes all over; and they found my Bronze Star and Purple Heart.
We didn't talk about this.
Fortunately, I had the foresight to dispose of some clothing a lady friend had left.
These would have been questioned endlessly.

First, thank you for your service. Secondly, unfortunately, like so many WWII vets, my uncle is no longer with us. But, he became a successful businessman, and led a fairly normal life, even with a lamb's bone for a shin and a pronounced limp. I regret that I never learned more from him, but we would always just say "I did what I had to do, and that's that."

On another side note, my father was also in the 101st, but in the late 50's/early 60's between Korea and Vietnam. He has some good stories about Little Rock and the Bay of Pigs, however.

 

[Zombie_61]

I had an experience just this morning of the poor use of the English language, which would have annoyed by old schoolmasters. I saw my postman in the street and asked if he had any post for me. He said, "no mate you ain't got nothing.", poor vocabulary and double negatives.

The mother of a very good friend is a retired school teacher. She gets visibly irritated every time she hears someone--anyone--use the word "ain't", even when my friend uses it in an obviously joking manner just to get a reaction out of her. If she'd been there to hear your postman's response I'd bet even money that she would have corrected him on the spot. lol

 

[LizzieMaine]

"A lot of people who ain't sayin' 'ain't' ain't eatin'."
-- Dizzy Dean, responding to a group of Missouri schoolteachers who claimed his reckless grammar on his baseball broadcasts would lead his listeners into lives of poverty and economic isolation.

 

[Haversack]

Curtain goes up. Savoy Theatre, London. 14 March 1885.

"If you want to know who we are,
We are gentlemen of Japan:
On many a vase and jar —
On many a screen and fan,
We figure in lively paint:
Our attitude's queer and quaint —
You're wrong if you think it ain't"

Haversack

 

[2jakes]

I remember an incident when I was a teenager, my brother and I walked into a little restaurant downtown, and he was wearing an Army jacket with sergeant's stripes sewn on the sleeve. Some middle-aged guy sitting at the counter shot him a look that spat fire and said "Did you EARN those?"

While wearing a reproduction "Flying Tigers" leather jacket during my teens.
A old man passing by... pauses & bluntly tells me that I have the CBI patch on the
wrong shoulder. Too embarrassed to respond...I just kept walking.

I regret not taking the time & hopefully speak to him of his tour in China.


His name ... David Lee "Tex" Hill , WWII fighter ace of the Flying Tigers.

I don't exactly recall whatever happened to that jacket.

 

[Retro Spectator]

I was in town today, and I saw some women wearing shirts that were really short, pared with low rise pants. Their outfits made them look quite like prostitutes. Whats next? Omnipresent nudists?