The general decline in standards today

[HudsonHawk]

The irony is that Rockefeller was really a railroad guy that assembled Standard Oil to provide fuel for his locomotives and oil and grease to lubricate every thing else.

I'm not sure where you got that impression. Rockefeller was an accountant in the produce business who opened his first oil refinery in 1863, at the age of 23. Standard Oil grew out of that refinery. While his eye was on providing oil for both illumination and new oil-driven industries such as railroads, he was not really a "railroad guy".

 

[jamespowers]

Rockefeller is believed have stated after they settled Morgan's estate, "He [Morgan] wasn't even a rich man."

:rofl: I believe he actually did.

 

[jamespowers]

I'm not sure where you got that impression. Rockefeller was an accountant in the produce business who opened his first oil refinery in 1863, at the age of 23. Standard Oil grew out of that refinery. While his eye was on providing oil for both illumination and new oil-driven industries such as railroads, he was not really a "railroad guy".

Yes, he started as a kerosene refiner---he could do it better than anyone else and had either bought or used a process one of his workers devised. He advertised his kerosene as being the purest and cleanest burning. Oil was an off shoot which ended up being the product that he really made money on.

 

[Captain Neon]

You are correct. Rockefeller was always an oil man. My mistake. I am sorry. Carnegie was the railroad guy. He got into steel to make sure that he had material for rails. I some times get the details about Rockefeller and Carnegie confused. Rockefeller was the rabid Baptist, while I believed for a long-time that Carnegie was the Baptist. Carnegie was hesitant to actually join an organized church.

I'm not sure where you got that impression. Rockefeller was an accountant in the produce business who opened his first oil refinery in 1863, at the age of 23. Standard Oil grew out of that refinery. While his eye was on providing oil for both illumination and new oil-driven industries such as railroads, he was not really a "railroad guy".

 

[HudsonHawk]

:rofl: I believe he actually did.

By the time of his death, Morgan had given away or set up trusts and endowments with much of his fortune. Rockefeller did too, expcept Rockefeller was making money faster than he could give it away.

 

[HudsonHawk]

You are correct. Rockefeller was always an oil man. My mistake. I am sorry. Carnegie was the railroad guy. He got into steel to make sure that he had material for rails. I some times get the details about Rockefeller and Carnegie confused. Rockefeller was the rabid Baptist, while I believed for a long-time that Carnegie was the Baptist. Carnegie was hesitant to actually join an organized church.

Yeah, Carnegie was a railroad guy, a protege of Tom Scott, who got into the steel business because iron wasn't getting it done for large structures. And not only was Rockefeller a rabid Baptist, his steadfast piety is what drove him to his questionable tactics. He believed he was doing God's work by being the one provider of oil to the masses, and justified his unscrupulousness with such.

 

[jamespowers]

By the time of his death, Morgan had given away or set up trusts and endowments with much of his fortune. Rockefeller did too, expcept Rockefeller was making money faster than he could give it away.

As I said before, Morgan was born rich. He knew how to live it.

 

[herringbonekid]

funny short radio piece by novelist Andrew Martin on the loss of 'gentility':

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03s67ln

he concludes that the relaxing of social etiquette came about simply because people ceased caring about whether a napkin was the same thing as a serviette.

 

[Metatron]

God, the egg opening etiquette and such stuff bores me to tears...

 

[LizzieMaine]

The question that I always wondered about is when you tuck your serviette into the front of your clothes how much is supposed to hang down? Half? Three quarters? Or should you be like one of them fops and just tuck in the corner, allowing the cloth to flow down the front of your clothes like a cravat?

 

[jamespowers]

The question that I always wondered about is when you tuck your serviette into the front of your clothes how much is supposed to hang down? Half? Three quarters? Or should you be like one of them fops and just tuck in the corner, allowing the cloth to flow down the front of your clothes like a cravat?

The latter of course.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry over this.

[video=youtube;OzqVVRlZzE8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzqVVRlZzE8[/video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzRIyfLHRn0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcENHbgfMR4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_HKaqYlHi4

 

[jamespowers]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry over this.

[video=youtube;OzqVVRlZzE8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzqVVRlZzE8[/video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzRIyfLHRn0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcENHbgfMR4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_HKaqYlHi4

And this is why I will never own rental property ever, ever, ever again.

 

[Stanley Doble]

Rockefeller started out working as a bookkeeper in a wholesale grocery concern in Cleveland. Then he went into business for himself, still in the grocery business. Cleveland became a center for the new oil trade as it was near the Pennsylvania oil fields. Rockefeller got into the oil business as an offshoot to the grocery business. First buying kerosene for resale and export, later he got into refining.

His co workers gave him the nickname "the Deacon" in his teens. In the rough and tumble oil business he stood out as the nearest thing to a saint. Others cleaned up a fast fortune in oil wells, phony oil stock and the like. Only Rockefeller stuck with the oil business for the long haul and became the richest man in the world.

In the time he was supposedly exploiting the consumer for all he was worth, he brought the price of kerosene down from 50 cents a gallon to 6 cents a gallon.

 

[vitanola]

moths don't like it.

Later

They have good taste, those moths...

 

[jamespowers]

His co workers gave him the nickname "the Deacon" in his teens. In the rough and tumble oil business he stood out as the nearest thing to a saint. Others cleaned up a fast fortune in oil wells, phony oil stock and the like. Only Rockefeller stuck with the oil business for the long haul and became the richest man in the world.

In the time he was supposedly exploiting the consumer for all he was worth, he brought the price of kerosene down from 50 cents a gallon to 6 cents a gallon.

That I about what he said to Congress when they were threatening to break up Standard Oil. They did anyway and made him even richer as a consequence.

 

[HudsonHawk]

That I about what he said to Congress when they were threatening to break up Standard Oil. They did anyway and made him even richer as a consequence.

And Congress was ok with that. The goal wasn't to prevent Rockefeller from making money, it was to open up the industry and stop his unfair trade practices.

 

[jamespowers]

And Congress was ok with that. The goal wasn't to prevent Rockefeller from making money, it was to open up the industry and stop his unfair trade practices.

Rockefeller was ok with that as well when he found out just how much they made him in the process. lol lol lol
The funny thing was that he was still a majority shareholder in every one of the spinoffs. lol lol What did they actually do by breaking up the company?

The industry, in actuality, was still closed to competition unless you think the companies that were once part of the whole competed against each other under the same majority shareholder. He still essentially controlled the industry until his death.

 

[vitanola]

Rockefeller was ok with that as well when he found out just how much they made him in the process. lol lol lol
The funny thing was that he was still a majority shareholder in every one of the spinoffs. lol lol What did they actually do by breaking up the company?



The industry, in actuality, was still closed to competition unless you think the companies that were once part of the whole competed against each other under the same majority shareholder. He still essentially controlled the industry until his death.

Yes but the changes to the Standard's business operations mandated by the 1912 ruling opened the industry up to many smaller players such Harry Sinclair and all of that Texas and Oklahoma crowd.

Hmm. Perhaps The Standard's monopoly would have been less pernicious than the ensuing situation, which created all of those reactionary Texas millionaires. Certainly food for thought, Mr. Powers.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Yes but the changes to the Standard's business operations mandated by the 1912 ruling opened the industry up to many smaller players such Harry Sinclair and all of that Texas and Oklahoma crowd.

It can, and has, been argued that the business would have opened up anyway. After Spindletop in 1901, and certainly by the boom in demand created by the widespread use of automobiles, it was getting harder and harder for Rockefeller to maintain the control he had. The industry was outgrowing him, if you can imagine that. Still, he was a sour and ruthless ba***rd, who made many enemies, so they weren't going to wait around to see what happened.

Hmm. Perhaps The Standard's monopoly would have been less pernicious than the ensuing situation, which created all of those reactionary Texas millionaires. Certainly food for thought, Mr. Powers.

A motley collection of right-wing nutjobs and bigamists...the opposite of hippies...perhaps Mr. Powers would embraces such a scenario....