The Ernest Hemingway Thread

[HadleyH]

This image of Hemingway is from the digital collection of The New York Public Library...... Just think the most exciting city on earth. Food being thrown at you while the servers yell at you.....

A very nice day indeed....

lol lol lol


Note aside ... do you see the scar on Hems forhead? Well I am pretty sure it was caused by the accident he suffered in Paris in the 20s, while living at Rue Ferou with his second wife Pauline ( If I'm wrong and that was caused in one of his other accidents, please somebody correct me) He said he had mistaken the skylight cord for the toilette's (at 2 o'clock in the morning after a wild night out, a bit tipsy may be )... it fell down on him and he got 9 stitches...ouch!



here is the famous photo of Sylvia Beach and a wounded Hemingway in front of Sylvia's bookshop "Shakespeare and Company" in Paris, late 1920s.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

^^^

yes ....and "the first of what may have been as many as five concussions." according to 'Note' "My True Occupation is that of a Writer": Hemingway's passport correspondence-Hemingway Review, The, Spring, 2005 by Daniel Robinson

(sounds like he may have a little soup in NYC)

 

[Tomasso]

Hemingway's home in Key West:

Hem built a fountain in the garden using the urinal he scavenged from his favorite bar, Sloppy Joe's,when it closed.

The cats seem happy drinking out of it.[huh]


The original Sloppy Joe's, now Captain Tony's.

 

[Tomasso]

Another of Hem's major hangs was Blue Heaven, a restaurant/bar. He would regularly organize and referee boxing matches in the backyard.

 

[Corto]

My Entry into Papa's World

I was in my early 20's, working a hack job, when my manager and I were talking our favorite authors. He was incredulous that I'd never read any Hemingway (I always thought his work seemed boring) and he let me borrow a collection of short stories (probably "In Our Time"). When I read "The Quay at Smyrna" I was blown away by the impact of the piece and Hemingway's style despite its brevity. It was kind of like when I heard the Ramones for the first time. I thought, "I didn't know people were allowed to write like this."

After that a friend loaned me "Farewell to Arms" and I was really hooked. I read through most (if not all) of the rest of his fiction throughout the next few years. Great stuff.

 

[Zanzibarstar]

Hemingway's home in Key West:

Tomasso, I heard Hemingway had a boxing ring in his yard, which he regularly worked out in, and that he would challenge reporters and the like to step into the ring with him. Is there anything like that on his house grounds? Have you heard this story?

 

[Carlisle Blues]

Hemingway loved the sport “My writing is nothing, my boxing is everything.” -Hemingway in a conversation with Josephine Herbst.

It appears that Hemingway was deluded as to his boxing ability. He often boasted to interviewers that he was "a good semi-professional boxer."

In 1922, Heavyweight Champion Jack Dempsey was the toast of Paris. He boxed with Douglas Fairbanks and Al Jolson. "There were more than a few in Paris that year who stepped into the four corners with the Champ for a light dance around the squared circle. They were no threat.

There was one person in Paris that year whose desire to get in the ring with Dempsey would not be indulged. Ernest Hemingway was a threat. Not to Dempsey but to himself."

As Roger Kahn, in his biography of the champion, A Flame of Pure Fire, reported Dempsey's side of the story: "'There were a lot of Americans in Paris and I sparred with a couple, just to be obliging,' Dempsey said. 'But there was one fellow I wouldn't mix it with. That was Ernest Hemingway. He was about twenty-five or so and in good shape, and I was getting so I could read people, or anyway men, pretty well. I had this sense that Hemingway, who really thought he could box, would come out of the corner like a madman. To stop him, I would have to hurt him badly, I didn't want to do that to Hemingway. That's why I never sparred with him.'"

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[Tomasso]

I heard Hemingway had a boxing ring in his yard, which he regularly worked out in, and that he would challenge reporters and the like to step into the ring with him. Is there anything like that on his house grounds? Have you heard this story?

I've heard that he would indeed spar with local boxers on his property but I've never heard that he went so far as to erect a ring, as he did for the Blue Heaven bouts.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

Tomasso, I heard Hemingway had a boxing ring in his yard, which he regularly worked out in, and that he would challenge reporters and the like to step into the ring with him. Is there anything like that on his house grounds? Have you heard this story?

Z. I realized you addressed Tomasso but I found this entertaining and thought this may interest you......

"Kermit "Shine" Forbes was a former boxer who had worked as a sparring partner for famed writer Ernest Hemingway.

Forbes met Hemingway on Thanksgiving eve in 1936; Forbes was working the corner of novice Alfred "Black Pie" Colebrooks at a fightcard in Bahama Village, in Key West. Colebrooks was taking a beating from Cuba's Joe Mills and Forbes threw in the towel, however, the referee threw the towel back out. An argument broke out between Forbes and the referee; ending up with the ring official being slugged. Shine later learned that the referee that he had hit was famed writer Ernest Hemingway. Forbes went to Hemingway's home to apologize, and the two became friends. Forbes said he sparred with Hemingway numerous times, and that the legendary writer even paid Forbes to box local fighters James "Iron Bear" Roberts, Alfred "Black Pie" Colebrooks, Eka Sweeting, and Victor Laurie.

According to an article in the London, England newspaper, The Independent, Forbes said that he boxed James "Iron Baby" Roberts in a ring on Hemingway's coral rock mansion on December 25, 1938. Among those viewing the match, was former world heavyweight champion, Gene Tunney. Forbes said that he and Roberts split a purse of two hundred dollars.

Forbes was an up-and-coming prospect who fought in such Key West locations as the Cuban Club, or the Strand on Duval Street. Ringside seats were a dollar and general admission was 75 cents. Lorian Hemingway, grand-daughter of Ernest Heminway, said in an article in Outside Magazine"



Lorian Hemingway, discusses her grandfather with Kermit "Shine" Forbes, who sparred with Ernest during the early thirties to help the novelist stay in shape...

 

[HadleyH]

More about Morley Callaghan vs Hemingway Boxing match.

Location: Gym at the American Club, Paris 1929.

"...Hem and Callaghan boxed for a few rounds with Scott Fitzgerald serving as a timekeeper. Fitzgerald accidentally let the second round go for too long.... Both men began to get tired, Hemingway got careless, Callaghan caught him a good punch on the mouth, Hem's mouth began to bleed, his lip wiping off blood... then suddenly Hemingway spat at Callaghan, he spat a mouthfull of blood, he spat in his face!!!! After spitting the blood with such theatrical scorn, he suddenly smiled...knowing very well he shouldn't have done it.

Morley Callaghan was shocked and bewildered ... and wondered of what strange nocturnal depths of his mind had come the barbarous gesture...."


"That Summer In Paris" by Morley Callaghan ---- this biography is a must to everybody interested in the Lost Generation. Excellent book :eusa_clap

 

[Carlisle Blues]

^^^
...and as the story goes Fitzgerald admitted this to Hemingway, who promptly laid into him, unmercifully accusing Fitzgerald of deliberately allowing the round to go overtime so that that he could "see me getting the s*** knocked out of me."
Hemingway's embarrassment and resentment would negatively affect his friendships with Callaghan and Fitzgerald."

That is one version anyway..[huh]

 

[Zanzibarstar]

Hemingway the Boxer

Wow...Cheers to everyone who added their bits about Ernest and his love for boxing! I had heard the story of him acting as referee and throwing the towel out, but that's it. On another note, are there any other boxing fans out there? Its the only sport I follow and love! Anyone going to be watching the Manny Pacquiao/Joshua Clottey fight tomorrow night?

 

[Tomasso]

at a fightcard in Bahama Village, in Key West.

That would have been Blue Heaven. They don't have a whole lot of space in the back so there mustn't have been a bad seat in the house.

 

[Tomasso]

Anyone going to be watching the Manny Pacquiao/Joshua Clottey fight tomorrow night?

I don't know...[huh] .....He should be fighting Mayweather.

 

[Zanzibarstar]

I don't know...[huh] .....He should be fighting Mayweather.

So, so true. I thought it was going to be a much better fight, given what I've seen from Clottey in past fights. Pacquiao is a buzz saw!! It was an amazing thing to watch...his offense was his best defense.

 

[tuppence]

I hate to refer to Wiki but it does say that Hemingway was diagnosed with Manic depression.
I suggest you read 'Touched by Fire' its a book that connects manic depresion/bipolar with artistic genius...It may give you a better insight into Hemingways perception of the world. I can't exactly remember if there was a chapter on Hemingway but I think it might interest you to find out how many artistic legends suffered from this illness.

So this is my take and I'm sorry if I ramble and please correct me on anything you think I have wrong because I'm no authority Hemingway.

Bipolar Disorder runs in families, the current statistics on Bipolar is that 20% of people with this condition kill themselves and 50% have serious reportable attempts, Considering the genetic factor and that Hemingway, his father and his grandaughter all committed suicide I suggest hemingways diagnoses was correct.

It would explain why Hemingway was such a contradictionary and narcisstic character. Because while he was having either a depressive or manic/hypo-manic episode his re-actions/perception of events and his ability to relate to people would be radicaly different and quite often not completely based on reality. So that when he was in a manic stage he may have inflated ideas about his boxing abilities.
I can't really explain how Mania feels but your mind goes a mile a minute constantly flooded by ideas, your physical energy increases, you don't sleep for days on end, you feel invincible and some-times act accordingly.

Depression and you spend weeks and months obsessing about your life, how inadequate you are, everything is futile, you might as well end it etc etc .

I've had Bipolar since I was 11 . When I was 30 I was lucky/unlucky enough to be on a medication that triggered a hypo-mania that lasted 18 months. It also had the strange effect of clearing any emotional connection I had with events before that time;even after the mania had gone I can remember stuff that happened to me, but it is like it happened to some-body else.
point of this is to explain to you that the weeks, months years I had spent obsessing over certain life events were suddenly put into perspective and I realised it was the bipolar that had made me obsess over these things not the event in itself...It might explain why Hemingway was obsessed with that relationship and why there may be contradictionary view points on what actually happened etc etc

Sorry for rambling and any bad spelling because I can't find spellcheck on windows7

 

[Nathan Dodge]

Tuppence:

Thank you for a tremendous and honest post--it is most definitely appreciated on this end.

Another Hemingway bio I strongly recommend is Denis Brian's THE TRUE GEN. It's an oral biography and among the participants are doctors who knew Hemingway as well as those who diagnose him based on what is known about his personality. Chilling, fascinating, and as about as good an insight as we'll ever get on the man.

 

[HadleyH]

I hate to refer to Wiki but it does say that Hemingway was diagnosed with Manic depression

Yes he was , also i might add "Ernest Hemingway, was given about a dozen electric shocks in an attempt to ease his recurring depression, and he found the resulting memory loss unbearable and shot himself a few days later. 'What is the sense of ruining my head and erasing my memory, which is my capital, and putting me out of business?' "

 

[Undertow]

I have to admit I've never been a fan of Hemingway, although I have always held high regard for his material. He was a master story teller, but I believe his life was far more interesting than his fiction.

One thing about his work I do appreciate is that everything I've read seems to have an underlying somberness or melancholy to it. For instance, The Sun Also Rises, seemed to me so sad and so hopeless. Even The Old Man and the Sea was depressing, in its own way.

 

[Harp]

What life is, you who hold it in your hands...
You let it flow from you, you let it flow,
And youth is cruel, and has no remorse
And smiles at situations which it cannot see.

Yet with these April sunsets, that somehow recall
My buried life, and Paris in the Spring,
I feel immeasurably at peace, and find the world
To be wonderful and youthful, after all.

Ts Eliot

From Eliot's Portrait of a Lady

As Duke Ellington said, "One more, once..."