The End of the Collector Mindset

[Fading Fast]

I think you hit on the most important part with the Fullerton example.Local governments have thrown aside any idea of community or community building.It all comes down to tax money creation for them.If it doesn’t make tax money for them they don’t want it.
I had the same thing happen here when the local morons decided that they wanted to create a history walk and such through downtown----a historic downtown that they tore down and replaced with modern junk in the 60s and 70s.The local historical commission had a meeting that I showed up to and reminded them---what the heck are you going to protect?The 70s junk that replaced REAL historic buildings?!Then I found out that they literally wanted to “import” historical looking buildings from other places.They wanted to create a Disneyland fake Main Street!:doh:
That horse was far out of the barn and we ended it there.We still have a sham history walk though.“On this site used to stand a historic building that we replaced because the mom and pop store in it didn’t make us enough sales tax money.”Dumbasses!

Holy Cow, that is an incredible story of government stupidity. There is nothing worse than those fake historic districts.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I'll bet the Chamber of Commerce lobbied hard in favor of it though -- they've been at the back of most of the dopey decisions like that around here, like tearing down our post office for parking lots. When you live by the tourist, you will, eventually, die by the tourist.

 

[ChiTownScion]

That's where my town is headed, and I hate it. If you don't drink, and I don't, there's nothing to do after the movie lets out at 9pm. Even if you just want to get a quick nighttime bite to eat downtown, you have to go to a bar full of loud, abrasive drinkers to do it. And when you do get the food it'll cost you fifteen dollars if it costs you a nickel.

I end up driving all the way across town to see the Clown or the Colonel rather than put up with that. I'd love to support a nice, quiet locally-owned open-late restaurant with no alcohol on the menu, but the foodies and the booze-lappers have crowded them all out.

What? No Starbucks?

 

[LizzieMaine]

No Starbucks. There's a locally-owned coffee shop that's been here since before Starbucks went national, but I heartily dislike coffee, and the coffee-snob mentality, so I never go in there. Plus they close at 6 o'clock most nights, except on Fridays -- when they have loud, live music. Which I get enough of at work.

All I want is a simple, 24-hour lunch room with a counter and a few stools, where you can go in at 11pm and get a ham sandwich and a glass of milk and a newspaper. The closest I can get to that is a microwave sandwich from a gas station, which may or may not be seasoned with Listeria.

 

[Fading Fast]

No Starbucks. There's a locally-owned coffee shop that's been here since before Starbucks went national, but I heartily dislike coffee, and the coffee-snob mentality, so I never go in there. Plus they close at 6 o'clock most nights, except on Fridays -- when they have loud, live music. Which I get enough of at work.

All I want is a simple, 24-hour lunch room with a counter and a few stools, where you can go in at 11pm and get a ham sandwich and a glass of milk and a newspaper. The closest I can get to that is a microwave sandwich from a gas station, which may or may not be seasoned with Listeria.

I miss two things that were in NYC when I first moved here in the 1980s - the Automat and Howard Johnson (which had an enormous counter - seated several 100). They both went away in the '90s - the Automat became a GAP (that I still curse every time I pass it) and one became a Sephora (in it's most recent incarnation).

Now, the thing is all these "upscale" sandwich places where you either pick your sandwich from a refrigerated case, or they make it for you - based on a very specific board menu - and you sit in a chaotic seating area that only gets - sometimes - a perfunctory cleaning and organizing during the day.

That said, this being NYC, you can still find old diners (less and less each year though) - and I know all the ones near me. But the true simpleness of HoJo's or the Automat is gone. Growing up, my favorite was - and this was a treat - when my Mom would take me to Woolworth's for lunch at the counter.

For whatever reason - as we are now a "foodie" culture and the "upscale" sandwich shops are what people want. And I'm not talking about the hot shots in their suits, the customers are everybody from construction guys to secretaries, nurses to transit workers - i.e. Regular Joes. And in my neighborhood, the Le Pan Quotidien does a better business with the Regular Joes - at $10-$12 a sandwich (I'm not kidding) , than the old style sandwich shop I go that costs $5-$7.

 

[LizzieMaine]

There is no sandwich on earth worth $12. Foodieism is the bunk -- it's all markup.

 

[dh66]

All I want is a simple, 24-hour lunch room with a counter and a few stools, where you can go in at 11pm and get a ham sandwich and a glass of milk and a newspaper. The closest I can get to that is a microwave sandwich from a gas station, which may or may not be seasoned with Listeria.

Thank God I live in the land of Waffle Houses.

Scattered, smothered, covered, and topped, 24-7, 365.

With extra jalapeños.

 

[Bamaboots]

No Starbucks. There's a locally-owned coffee shop that's been here since before Starbucks went national, but I heartily dislike coffee, and the coffee-snob mentality, so I never go in there. Plus they close at 6 o'clock most nights, except on Fridays -- when they have loud, live music. Which I get enough of at work.

Lizziemaine, perhaps Waffle House will venture that far north, someday.

The municipality I went to work for in the early 80's was desperately trying to revitalize the downtown area. The area had a lot of historic buildings and others that had tried to fit in architecturally whenever they were built. The area sits right between two historic residential neighborhoods, with everything from Victorian homes to post WWII cottages.

As this was during the time there was a mass exodus to the malls, at least in this area. The local government, along with the Chamber of Commerce got together and hired a consulting firm to come up with solutions. What they came up with was just a "brilliant" idea.

The nitwits decided that if the sidewalks were covered along the front of the businesses, it would make the shopping experience more "mall" like. "If we build it, they will come"

With no local funds available, the Chamber of Commerce applied for and got a Federal grant to cover the costs and it was built. After great expense and much fan fare, and even a ceremony, the newly revitalized downtown area was open for business. Ya'll come.

What they ended up with were covered sidewalks that had the appearance of the worlds longest, covered bus stop that nobody used, save for the few shop owners and lawyers that remained. It was ugly. After years of pondering, why aren't businesses returning, another consulting firm was hired. This time it was decided that the cover over the sidewalks needed to come down. Go figure.

Since this was a project funded by the fed, approval was required to remove it. The Chamber had to lobby for this and after several years permission was granted. It was removed,at the cities expense and to this day, the downtown area remains the same, except for increased parking spaces and new, freestanding metal buildings they allowed to be erected.

 

[Fading Fast]

There is no sandwich on earth worth $12. Foodieism is the bunk -- it's all markup.

You will not get an argument from me.

That said, the one small caveat is that NYC is stupid expensive. Whenever I visit Maine, I have to adjust my what-do-things-cost meter as everything seems inexpensive otherwise. My guess - pure guess - is that a Quotidien sandwich in Maine is probably is $8 - $10, as I know some other chain restaurants (but I don't know this specifically about Quotidien) charge about 20% higher for their NYC locations.

But, yes, $12 is crazy.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Thank God I live in the land of Waffle Houses.

Scattered, smothered, covered, and topped, 24-7, 365.

With extra jalapeños.

Now yer chunkin' it in there, kid!

Waffle House, Huddle House, Kettle, Denny's...and if you need that burger fix...Whataburger! Reason number 8,593,321 why the South rocks!

Big wheels keep on turnin'
Carry me home to see my kin...

 

[Fading Fast]

No Starbucks. There's a locally-owned coffee shop that's been here since before Starbucks went national, but I heartily dislike coffee, and the coffee-snob mentality, so I never go in there. Plus they close at 6 o'clock most nights, except on Fridays -- when they have loud, live music. Which I get enough of at work.

Lizziemaine, perhaps Waffle House will venture that far north, someday.

The municipality I went to work for in the early 80's was desperately trying to revitalize the downtown area. The area had a lot of historic buildings and others that had tried to fit in architecturally whenever they were built. The area sits right between two historic residential neighborhoods, with everything from Victorian homes to post WWII cottages.

As this was during the time there was a mass exodus to the malls, at least in this area. The local government, along with the Chamber of Commerce got together and hired a consulting firm to come up with solutions. What they came up with was just a "brilliant" idea.

The nitwits decided that if the sidewalks were covered along the front of the businesses, it would make the shopping experience more "mall" like. "If we build it, they will come"

With no local funds available, the Chamber of Commerce applied for and got a Federal grant to cover the costs and it was built. After great expense and much fan fare, and even a ceremony, the newly revitalized downtown area was open for business. Ya'll come.

What they ended up with were covered sidewalks that had the appearance of the worlds longest, covered bus stop that nobody used, save for the few shop owners and lawyers that remained. It was ugly. After years of pondering, why aren't businesses returning, another consulting firm was hired. This time it was decided that the cover over the sidewalks needed to come down. Go figure.

Since this was a project funded by the fed, approval was required to remove it. The Chamber had to lobby for this and after several years permission was granted. It was removed,at the cities expense and to this day, the downtown area remains the same, except for increased parking spaces and new, freestanding metal buildings they allowed to be erected.

Interestingly, in NJ, one of the first malls in the country was built right after WWII and, while you entered the stores from the outside, the sidewalks were covered. It proved to be an interim step to the fully enclosed mall. At least that was the story I was told as a kid growing up in NJ.

What an ugly story you told - I hate when taxpayer money gets wasted like that.

 

[jamespowers]

Holy Cow, that is an incredible story of government stupidity. There is nothing worse than those fake historic districts.

Yeah they were/are idiots. Fortunately people like me shined light on the stupid and they couldn't do everything they wanted to. My family has lived in this city for over 125 years. You can't fool us.

 

[jamespowers]

I'll bet the Chamber of Commerce lobbied hard in favor of it though -- they've been at the back of most of the dopey decisions like that around here, like tearing down our post office for parking lots. When you live by the tourist, you will, eventually, die by the tourist.

That is backward here. The Chamber of Horrors does whatever the city tells them to do here. I have had many run ins with the idiots who have been in charge of it.
Interestingly, the presidents emeritus all move out of the city after their tenure or do not live here in the first place so they don’t need to live with the crap they support.

 

[jamespowers]

No Starbucks. There's a locally-owned coffee shop that's been here since before Starbucks went national, but I heartily dislike coffee, and the coffee-snob mentality, so I never go in there. Plus they close at 6 o'clock most nights, except on Fridays -- when they have loud, live music. Which I get enough of at work.

All I want is a simple, 24-hour lunch room with a counter and a few stools, where you can go in at 11pm and get a ham sandwich and a glass of milk and a newspaper. The closest I can get to that is a microwave sandwich from a gas station, which may or may not be seasoned with Listeria.

We have about TEN Starcrooks around here. :doh: The city is against more fast food places but they LOVE coffee houses. Damned hippie hangouts……

 

[jamespowers]

Thank God I live in the land of Waffle Houses.

Scattered, smothered, covered, and topped, 24-7, 365.

With extra jalapeños.

Jalapenos?! :faint:

 

[jamespowers]

No Starbucks. There's a locally-owned coffee shop that's been here since before Starbucks went national, but I heartily dislike coffee, and the coffee-snob mentality, so I never go in there. Plus they close at 6 o'clock most nights, except on Fridays -- when they have loud, live music. Which I get enough of at work.

Lizziemaine, perhaps Waffle House will venture that far north, someday.

The municipality I went to work for in the early 80's was desperately trying to revitalize the downtown area. The area had a lot of historic buildings and others that had tried to fit in architecturally whenever they were built. The area sits right between two historic residential neighborhoods, with everything from Victorian homes to post WWII cottages.

As this was during the time there was a mass exodus to the malls, at least in this area. The local government, along with the Chamber of Commerce got together and hired a consulting firm to come up with solutions. What they came up with was just a "brilliant" idea.

The nitwits decided that if the sidewalks were covered along the front of the businesses, it would make the shopping experience more "mall" like. "If we build it, they will come"

With no local funds available, the Chamber of Commerce applied for and got a Federal grant to cover the costs and it was built. After great expense and much fan fare, and even a ceremony, the newly revitalized downtown area was open for business. Ya'll come.

What they ended up with were covered sidewalks that had the appearance of the worlds longest, covered bus stop that nobody used, save for the few shop owners and lawyers that remained. It was ugly. After years of pondering, why aren't businesses returning, another consulting firm was hired. This time it was decided that the cover over the sidewalks needed to come down. Go figure.

Since this was a project funded by the fed, approval was required to remove it. The Chamber had to lobby for this and after several years permission was granted. It was removed,at the cities expense and to this day, the downtown area remains the same, except for increased parking spaces and new, freestanding metal buildings they allowed to be erected.

Well, it is good to know that my area is not the only one to do the EXACT same stupidity. The consultants always cost about $100,000 each time too. I could tell them it wouldn’t work for FREE. My favorite part is when they lie and say that their plans are “bearing fruit and drawing people to the downtown"------riiiiiggghhhttt……

 

[Bamaboots]

Thank God I live in the land of Waffle Houses.

Scattered, smothered, covered, and topped, 24-7, 365.

With extra jalapeños.

Saved me many times on late night forays and almost killed me working midnight shifts. I love em.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The consultants got paid, though. Whenever anything stupid is proposed at any level, public or private, you can bet there's a "consultant" at the back of it.

We had a Chamber of Commerce initiative here some years ago to build a "Harbor Trail," some kind of tourism gewgaw that would lead the touristi from historic downtown point to historic downtown point, but the city thought it was a dumb, dumb idea since all it would do would be to further congest the already intolerable traffic in the summer -- US 1 runs right thru the middle of town. But the Chamber lobbied and lobbied, and finally the city complied in the most passive-aggressive way possible. They sent out one Public Works guy with a parking-lot striper loaded with royal blue paint, and he drew a line on the sidewalk from the start of the "Harbor Trail" to its finish. And for the next ten years, until the sidewalks got replaced, tourists wandered around wondering what that blue line was all about.

I think a consultant came up with that one too, and he probably got paid.

 

[dh66]

Jalapenos?! :faint:

Jalapeños make everything better

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Thank God I live in the land of Waffle Houses.

Scattered, smothered, covered, and topped, 24-7, 365.

With extra jalapeños.

And live "entertainment."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1MxyZjdPgA