The End of the Collector Mindset

[tonyb]

Yet another account of the shrinking antiques/vintage market, although this one contradicts some assertions in the others. Like the others, though, much of it hinges on anecdotal observation, so take that for whatever it is worth.

There’s apparently hard(ish) data to show that attendance at events such a Brimfield is a fraction of what it once was. The writer of this piece cites the rise of online outlets (eBay, etc.) as being a major contributing factor in the shrinking prices of old stuff and the sizes of crowds at antique fairs and the like. A person can't help but reassess the rareness of an item after he goes online and finds 50 others just like it.

Still, he tells of younger people getting into the game, both as buyers and sellers. But much of what they're buying and selling aren't "real" antiques. That's his angle on it, anyway.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/magazin...d-old-again/qRtth5ulfaWawmbUFIjUsJ/story.html

 

[belfastboy]

My great aunt was ruled mentally unable to handle her affairs and the state took over. Amongst her personal items were a rocking chair and the family bible brought over from Ulster in 1905.ThePublic Trustees took it all and the only way we could have access would be to bid on it when it went to public auction.

 

[tonyb]

My great aunt was ruled mentally unable to handle her affairs and the state took over. Amongst her personal items were a rocking chair and the family bible brought over from Ulster in 1905.ThePublic Trustees took it all and the only way we could have access would be to bid on it when it went to public auction.

Almighty dollar, eh?

Did any family member attempt to purchase it? I hear that antique rocking chairs and Bibles are generally of little more than sentimental value.

 

[belfastboy]

Almighty dollar, eh?

Did any family member attempt to purchase it? I hear that antique rocking chairs and Bibles are generally of little more than sentimental value.

It was so soul destroying dealing with these folks that I gave up. They wouldn't advise us when the auction came up. It was up to us to do the search.

 

[belfastboy]

But it did serve to make certain I have power of attorney and a will made out So none of my family has to endure a Public Trustee.

 

[tonyb]

Chatted with an antique/vintage/junk dealer acquaintance a couple days ago. He told of a person who was looking to sell a heavy piece of late-19th century furniture — an elaborately ornamented sideboard sort of thing with a marble top. The dealer explained to the seller that the market for furniture of that sort had gone soft so the best he could offer was half of what he realistically expected he could sell it for. The would-be seller opted to try selling it for a higher price himself. He eventually called my old-crap peddler friend to accept his original offer — $150.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Every once in a while someone will ask me what an old radio or TV set is worth -- "it was in my grandparents' house and it's in mint condition, one of those big ones that sits in the living room. Got a record player and everything --they paid a lot of money for it and kept it all polished and nice. I'm thinking it's got to be at least a few hundred."

Fact is, old console radios and TV sets are such an unwanted glut on the market right now that, with the exception of something like a 1930s Scott Philharmonic, you'll be lucky to find anybody who wants it at all, and if you get more than $25-$50, consider yourself lucky. People will say, "oh, but I saw a Zenith with a Big Black Dial on the Craigslist for $350, so there." Well, you'll see it there week after week because the market for those has pretty much crashed. There are enough of them around that pretty much everybody that wants one has already got one, and you're not going to get $350 for it no matter how pretty it is.

As for old TV sets, other than culty things like Predictas and certain mid-1950s color sets, the only ones with any dollar value at all are those from before 1950. If you've got something like an RCA 621 from 1946, or any pre-WWII TV, you've got something worth money, but a post-1950 TV set, no matter how "nice" it is, is basically something to put on the sidewalk with a FREE sign on it. Especially if it's a big console in a fine wooden cabinet.

My TV is a 1954 RCA table model, and I love it to pieces, but I found it at the dump, and that was thirty-two years ago. It's now worth even less, dollar-wise, than it was then. But I'm not a "collector," so I don't care.

 

[tonyb]

A month or so ago my Facebook Marketplace feed showed me a 1940s vintage Coronado console radio/phonograph for sale not far from me.

Turned out that a real estate agent was left to clear out the stuff her clients (the sellers) left behind when they hightailed it to Arizona. “You’re earning your commission on this one,” I told her, as she emptied the place ahead of the new owners’ pending arrival.

I gave her 40 bucks for the radio/phonograph, which seemed fair, seeing how it works and how the cabinet is in solid condition with no missing veneer and with good original grille cloth and all. And that it came with a stack of 78’s, including a Hank Williams and a Mills Bros. example.

I got a chuckle out of the $150 garage sale price tag affixed to the top of the radio.

I commented on a quite nice two-drawer veneered commercial-duty filing cabinet, a sleek and spare ’60s-vintage unit. The real estate gal asked me just to get it out of her way, please and thank you.

The market for filing cabinets has tanked as well, but we happen to be in need of one (too many un- and disorganized papers in too many places) and this particular example — 31w by 18d by 31h — could easily be converted to a small dresser or blanket chest by removing the file hangers. It’s a nice piece of furniture, we have a good place for it, and you can’t beat the price.

 

[tonyb]

One exception I’ve noticed of late is 1960s and early ’70s-vintage console stereos. But only the sleek mid-mod examples. The “Mediterranean” or “Colonial” cabinets you might not be able to give away.

The old-junk peddler friend I mentioned a few posts up from this one has an associate who rents space in his antique mall. She had a real sweet ’60s console stereo she marked at $550. My friend said he doubted she’d get anything approaching that much for it, so if she wanted to sell it soon she might ask half that.

He was wrong. The right person just happened to show up and paid $550 for it.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

The writer of this piece cites the rise of online outlets (eBay, etc.) as being a major contributing factor in the shrinking prices of old stuff and the sizes of crowds at antique fairs and the like. A person can't help but reassess the rareness of an item after he goes online and finds 50 others just like it.

In my recent experience a measure of rarity can be garnered from the frequency that something turns up on eBay. There are a couple of things on my want list that appear to be exceedingly rare because they hardly, if ever, turn up on eBay. And it's not even anything that old -- one of them is a book that was published in 2012! The other thing had completely disappeared from eBay.

 

[tonyb]

Every once in a while someone will ask me what an old radio or TV set is worth -- "it was in my grandparents' house and it's in mint condition, one of those big ones that sits in the living room. Got a record player and everything --they paid a lot of money for it and kept it all polished and nice. I'm thinking it's got to be at least a few hundred."

Fact is, old console radios and TV sets are such an unwanted glut on the market right now that, with the exception of something like a 1930s Scott Philharmonic, you'll be lucky to find anybody who wants it at all, and if you get more than $25-$50, consider yourself lucky. People will say, "oh, but I saw a Zenith with a Big Black Dial on the Craigslist for $350, so there." Well, you'll see it there week after week because the market for those has pretty much crashed. There are enough of them around that pretty much everybody that wants one has already got one, and you're not going to get $350 for it no matter how pretty it is.

As for old TV sets, other than culty things like Predictas and certain mid-1950s color sets, the only ones with any dollar value at all are those from before 1950. If you've got something like an RCA 621 from 1946, or any pre-WWII TV, you've got something worth money, but a post-1950 TV set, no matter how "nice" it is, is basically something to put on the sidewalk with a FREE sign on it. Especially if it's a big console in a fine wooden cabinet.

My TV is a 1954 RCA table model, and I love it to pieces, but I found it at the dump, and that was thirty-two years ago. It's now worth even less, dollar-wise, than it was then. But I'm not a "collector," so I don't care.

Another exception is the Eames-designed Zenith and Emerson tabletop radios.

These units were produced before the Eameses became the Eameses. That’s why they fetch many times what other radios of that era might get you. It’s the name, really. They’re attractive cabinets, but certainly not the only or even the most stylish of that era.

 

[vitanola]

Another exception is the Eames-designed Zenith and Emerson tabletop radios.

These units were produced before the Eameses became the Eameses. That’s why they fetch many times what other radios of that era might get you. It’s the name, really. They’re attractive cabinets, but certainly not the only or even the most stylish of that era.

Those Emerson sets with the "European styling" were among the dogs of the radio hobby until a very few years ago. They were nicely engineered, but were entirely too common and too plain to attract any interest at all -until- the Eames name was applied to them. The number of these sets produced was immense. Of course, the Bakelite and Plaskon 587 models are more common still than the plywood 587A, but really!

 

[tonyb]

Those Emerson sets with the "European styling" were among the dogs of the radio hobby until a very few years ago. They were nicely engineered, but were entirely too common and too plain to attract any interest at all -until- the Eames name was applied to them. The number of these sets produced was immense. Of course, the Bakelite and Plaskon 587 models are more common still than the plywood 587A, but really!

Should I ever come across one for a few bucks at a garage sale I’ll snap it up and immediately sell it at a slightly below market price.

I’m guessing the market values will drop before long. Strike while the iron is hot, etc.

 

[3fingers]

The Eames aura has been stretched to the breaking point on eBay. Any object produced by anyone at any time during their lives is listed as "Eames era" by some sellers. It's ridiculous. The only term more overused is RARE!

 

[tonyb]

The Eames aura has been stretched to the breaking point on eBay. Any object produced by anyone at any time during their lives is listed as "Eames era" by some sellers. It's ridiculous. The only term more overused is RARE!

My peeve is the overuse of “iconic.” There’s almost always a better word. “Archetypal,” maybe, or “signature.”

 

[vitanola]

Should I ever come across one for a few bucks at a garage sale I’ll snap it up and immediately sell it at a slightly below market price.

I’m guessing the market values will drop before long. Strike while the iron is hot, etc.

Yes. Look what happened to Catalin radios. Sets which sold for thousands in the late 1990s are now worth mere hundreds, and yet they are electronically similar to plain wooden or Bakelite models which never were worth more than $50.

 

[tonyb]

Yes. Look what happened to Catalin radios. Sets which sold for thousands in the late 1990s are now worth mere hundreds, and yet they are electronically similar to plain wooden or Bakelite models which never were worth more than $50.

You piqued my curiosity. Yes, some of those Catalin radios are stylish and distinctive indeed. Wouldn’t mind having one (or more) myself.

There’s no good reason why utilitarian devices shouldn’t be attractive, and one very good reason why they should: people’s lives are enriched by beautiful things. Sometimes the beauty IS in the function, of course, but making our everyday objects more aesthetically pleasing is kinda what we humans do, and have always done.

 

[tonyb]

A Persian rug dealer with whom I am fairly well acquainted introduced me to another old-stuff peddler who said she takes cues from the pages of Country Living magazine as to what sorts of merchandise will catch fire (figuratively, of course) and goes about her inventory hunting and pricing accordingly.

People follow fads, no doubt. They spot the hottest new (but old) thing in their go-to decor mag or favorite TV show and they just gotta have it. “Mad Men” didn’t create the resurgence in mid-century interior design, but it sure helped it along. And Country Living sets the standard for the corn-fed contingent.

 

[vitanola]

You piqued my curiosity. Yes, some of those Catalin radios are stylish and distinctive indeed. Wouldn’t mind having one (or more) myself.

There’s no good reason why utilitarian devices shouldn’t be attractive, and one very good reason why they should: people’s lives are enriched by beautiful things. Sometimes the beauty IS in the function, of course, but making our everyday objects more aesthetically pleasing is kinda what we humans do, and have always done.

The Catalin sets are lovely, that's true. They are made of a form of cast Bakelite resin. Unlike the usual opaque Bakelite, which was poured as a powder into expensive (the die for a five tube radio cabinet could cost 10,000 1941 follars) steel dies and cured under heat and high pressure in minutes, Catalin resin was poured as a liquid into inexpensive lead moulds which were then baked for a number of hours to cure the resin. Catalin cabinets had much lower tooling costs than did Bakelite cabinets, but Tue labor and finishing costs for Catalin were much greater. It was only economically feasable to use Catalin on relatively low production models, hence its relative rarity.

 

[tonyb]

The Catalin sets are lovely, that's true. They are made of a form of cast Bakelite resin. Unlike the usual opaque Bakelite, which was poured as a powder into expensive (the die for a five tube radio cabinet could cost 10,000 1941 follars) steel dies and cured under heat and high pressure in minutes, Catalin resin was poured as a liquid into inexpensive lead moulds which were then baked for a number of hours to cure the resin. Catalin cabinets had much lower tooling costs than did Bakelite cabinets, but Tue labor and finishing costs for Catalin were much greater. It was only economically feasable to use Catalin on relatively low production models, hence its relative rarity.

I read a couple pieces on the matter yesterday, according to which the material was also subject to discoloration from the heat of the tubes (and that heat shields, while effective, were often made of asbestos), that it might slowly dissolve in water, that prolonged exposure to heat rendered it brittle, and that its expansion and contraction due to temperature changes was far less than the materials from which the chassis were made, resulting in stripped and broken screw holes.

However, I don’t believe everything I read, but if even part of the above is reliable, a person might conclude that many a Catalin radio cabinet didn’t survive more than a couple-three decades.

Apparently newer plastics post-War pretty well spelled the end of Catalin radio production.