The Dobbs Diner...

[alanfgag]

gay prince - your thoughts?

Will know more when the hat arrives next week, but today this auction hat is a bit of a puzzler. Would love to hear your thoughts.

Seller photos below are low resolution, but I don't see any holes for missing whip stitching on the self ribbon... haven't seen a Gay Prince that doesn't have this feature. The sweat appears unreeded, also not characteristic of the Gay Princes that I have seen, including the 1940s linerless ones. The sweat reminds me of my early forties Playboy and the store logo looks like it could be Pantke-Harpke Co. in Milwaukee. Or maybe I'm all wet and this is a more recent hat. Or maybe the May Prince was yet another variation on the theme!!

What think ye?

thanks!
Alan

 

[hatophile]

Nice hat, Alan, I like the heathered look of the felt. Sure looks like some of the GP's I have seen, but not in person. Plus it does say so on the sweat.

 

[alanfgag]

Thanks... I do have two examples from the fifties... This is somewhat different.

 

[Brad Bowers]

That's quite the interesting hat, Alan. I'd say it's '40s, too, but I also haven't seen the unreeded sweat and non-whip-stitched band. It doesn't match the details of my 1942 Gay Prince. I've noticed in ads for the GP in the '40s that the prices seem to range between $12 and $20, suggesting they had different levels within the same model name. That could explain the differences. I'm looking forward to seeing more about it when you receive it.

Brad

 

[alanfgag]

Thanks Brad... I will post an update with better pictures when the hat arrives.

 

[Kkaderly]

Ok Alan ... You and I having the same head size is not a good thing ! I spotted this one floating in the bay ... Glad you picked it up ... It's a really interesting hat ... Could you post a pick of your GP just for reference. I was concerned about the brim stitch not being original but I have never seen a GP before!?!

 

[bond]

Here is my latest Dobbs. its called the rancher, 5" crown 3" brim. Iam going to have a new vintage ribbon put on this wk.

 

[bond]

And the next pic of the rancher..

 

[zetwal]

I like the cowboy logo on the Rancher. Very energetic ... :llama:

 

[alanfgag]

Ok Alan ... You and I having the same head size is not a good thing ! I spotted this one floating in the bay ... Glad you picked it up ... It's a really interesting hat ... Could you post a pick of your GP just for reference. I was concerned about the brim stitch not being original but I have never seen a GP before!?!

I'm traveling for a couple of days... Hard to copy and paste from my iPad. There are quite a few Gay Princes on this thread and on several dedicated threads. Google search " Gay Prince fedora lounge" and you should find them easily. The whipstitch on the brim and at the top of the self ribbon are trademarks.

 

[bond]

It's actually a decent hat and it reminds me of a vintage Stetson circa 1950s. The crown can be bashed yet the brim is a little more stiff than I prefer but it still has possibilities. Well see how a new ribbon is going to look on it, But I also like the look of a 1/2 leather strap as well.
It most likely will be up for sale soon to make room for others.

 

[Joshbru3]

Will know more when the hat arrives next week, but today this auction hat is a bit of a puzzler. Would love to hear your thoughts.

Seller photos below are low resolution, but I don't see any holes for missing whip stitching on the self ribbon... haven't seen a Gay Prince that doesn't have this feature. The sweat appears unreeded, also not characteristic of the Gay Princes that I have seen, including the 1940s linerless ones. The sweat reminds me of my early forties Playboy and the store logo looks like it could be Pantke-Harpke Co. in Milwaukee. Or maybe I'm all wet and this is a more recent hat. Or maybe the May Prince was yet another variation on the theme!!

What think ye?

thanks!
Alan

I had my eye on that one and was thinking about bidding. I knew that It wouldn't get much head time, so I laid off. I thought it was extremely interesting that the band didn't have the whip stitching. I also initially thought that since the hat didn't have the reeded sweatband, that it was an early 40's model. Possibly one of the first made in the Gay Prince line? It doesn't seem to have that real wide brim like so many Gay princes of the 40's and 50's. Also, the felt doesn't appear to have that suede finish. It looks like a beautiful heather gray. I actually like the color and finish on this hat far better than a typical Gay prince. I can't wait to see some detailed pictures of that one! Great catch!

 

[Joshbru3]

I was looking through my collected hat ads today and I think I may have found something, Alan. It could be something or it could be nothing. In this 1942 Dobbs Ad:

On the very bottom right of the ad, it mentions a hat called the Bumble Bee which has a saddle stitched brim and a regular non stitched felt hat band. Underneath in small print, there is mention of the Gay Prince model which had "Suede Felt" but would have been in a Dawn Grey color. Even though they don't show a picture of the Gay Prince, it may be possible that the Gay Prince from this year of production also had the non-saddle stiched felt hat band. Possibly the only difference between the Bumble Bee and the Gay Prince would have been the finish and possibly brim size. This is speculation of course, but a possibility none the less.

 

[Lefty]

II took quite a few shots of that issue before I sold it. They're not all great, but they're there.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Here's a Gay Prince from 1942:

Brad

 

[Joshbru3]

Thanks for the posts, Lefty and Brad. Does anyone know when the first Gay Prince came out? The one that Alan posted seems to be older due to the slightly shorter brim, and un-reeded sweatband. Also the sweatband markings seem to be pretty consistent with 40's Dobbs hats. Obviously, this could have been a special/custom order by a customer or possibly a special run from a retail store.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Thanks for the posts, Lefty and Brad. Does anyone know when the first Gay Prince came out? The one that Alan posted seems to be older due to the slightly shorter brim, and un-reeded sweatband. Also the sweatband markings seem to be pretty consistent with 40's Dobbs hats. Obviously, this could have been a special/custom order by a customer or possibly a special run from a retail store.

September 1940.

Here's an ad from September 11, 1940, showing saddle-stitching on both the brim and the band.

Brad

 

[alanfgag]

Thanks for the great research guys... Will share more on this hat when I have it in hand.

 

[suitedcboy]

The Envoy in that ad is interesting. I don't recall ever seeing one displayed on here. I have never seen one on Ebay that I recognized as this hat either.

 

[alanfgag]

The odd little Gay Prince arrived this morning. I will take some photos to post later today, but a quick report first.

As Josh guessed from the auction photos, the felt is not the typical sueded finish, but a soft heather closer in appearance to the Stetson Tijuana but much lighter. The ribbon is 3/4 made from the same felt and has never had the decorative overstitch. This is a hat that you might expect an ebay seller to describe as wool felt and you might not fault them for that mis-identification. Brim is 2 1/2 inches - but I do have examples and this width and wider, both from the 1950's.

Inside, the size label was turned under the sweat - it is printed shiny gold metallic with black size 7. Sweatband is 1 7/8 embossed pattern and unreeded. Underneath the sweat is a a simple unbranded 1/2" x 3" style label marked G52420.

The hat was purchased from the Davenport Sport Shop - I believe, a shop in the historic Davenport Hotel in Spokane, WA. I called the hotel to get some info on the shop - not much help as of yet, but it was in existence for a long time - at least 1920's through 1970's from the ads I found online.

It seems that this hat might have been a lightweight summer/travel model to complement the heavier felted Gay Prince, rather than an early precursor. I haven't been able to come up with another example in my searches thus far.

Will clean it up and share some photos soon.

cheers,
Alan