The Dobbs Diner...

[jamespowers]

My $4.99 Dobbs Twenty-Five Guild Edge Alpine-style hat finally arrived today, so I thought I'd post it here, as well as over at the Satin Finish/Long Hair Club. Beautiful hat, but really needs a good cleaning, as the cream-colored felt is quite dingy brown in spots. A few moth divots, but these aren't very noticeable with the longhair finish.

Could date from 1944-1955, roughly, but best guess places it in the early-'50s. I don't know when Hat Corp. started using oilskin liner tip protectors, but I think the general consensus here is that companies were using them by the early-'50s.

Mayserwegener, or anyone, what's the history of this style of hat in America?

The reorder tag is buried under the liner, so I couldn't get a photo, but it's the standard Hat Corp. one we've seen from the '50s on, though the tag style could date back to the previous decade. There is no union tag present, but on the underside of the sweatband there used to be a two-inch long tag for something. I haven't seen a union tag that size, though.

I think you might be closer to the beginning date of that range there. The liner, the extra tooling on the leather and the overall silhouette makes me think older. The US. wasn't that hot on Alpine styles after WWII for some reason.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Good points, all. Yes, I also thought almost everything pointed to an earlier hat, with the exception of the oilskin, but maybe it was used earlier than I thought. Hadn't considered the popularity of the hat post-war, but they did seem to make a resurgence by sometime in the '60s.

If it hadn't been for the Guild Edge and the fact that it's a higher-end Dobbs, I wouldn't have even bothered. But it fits my wife, and she likes it, so, it off to the Naptha bath.

Brad

 

[Brad Bowers]

Rotsa'ruck!

Surprisingly, I showed it to her when she got home from work, and she likes it! She's not convinced that a Muppet didn't die in the production of the hat, but the Guild Edge sealed it for her.lol

So, off to the naphtha bath.

Brad

 

[jamespowers]

Good points, all. Yes, I also thought almost everything pointed to an earlier hat, with the exception of the oilskin, but maybe it was used earlier than I thought. Hadn't considered the popularity of the hat post-war, but they did seem to make a resurgence by sometime in the '60s.

If it hadn't been for the Guild Edge and the fact that it's a higher-end Dobbs, I wouldn't have even bothered. But it fits my wife, and she likes it, so, it off to the Naptha bath.

Brad

The 1960s were way into the future of this hat. I am not sure when the oilskin first became an accessory for hats but it is likely an earlier feature as the lousy, easily torn, pain in the neck clear plastic stuff that came later.

 

[Dreispitz]

I was hoping maybe you could tell me!

Brad

My initial link has obviously dissapeared However, do you remember "Tribbles"?

Well, usually the long hairy fur is achieved by brushing the felt. Siberian hare underbelly felt was very popular as a source for long hair felt hats. Has become very rare. I found a hatter in Germany who has some cones left. Do not ask about the prices.

In the case of your hat, how does it feel? Is in more hare felt od beaverish? Could it be Merino wool? It is quite curly as opposed to fluffy hare.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Yes, it's definitely Tribblish!lol

It may have some beaver, but I'm guessing it's mostly, if not all, hare. Certainly not Merino wool.

Brad

 

[jamespowers]

We need a scene capture of this scene when the tribble fell out of the overhead compartment and hit him on the head.

Voila! You have that hat's nexus.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Like this?

Brad

 

[mayserwegener]

My initial link has obviously dissapeared However, do you remember "Tribbles"?

Well, usually the long hairy fur is achieved by brushing the felt. Siberian hare underbelly felt was very popular as a source for long hair felt hats. Has become very rare. I found a hatter in Germany who has some cones left. Do not ask about the prices.

In the case of your hat, how does it feel? Is in more hare felt od beaverish? Could it be Merino wool? It is quite curly as opposed to fluffy hare.

I agree this doesn't look like hare. Looks like some type of wool.

My friend has a couple of those $1000.00 Siberian hare hats from HK. I will have to take some pictures and post.

 

[jamespowers]

Like this?

Brad

lol lol lol lol lol lol Yeah that's it. lol

 

[mayserwegener]

Mayserwegener, or anyone, what's the history of this style of hat in America?

Brad

I am thinking 50s. It is highly likely it was imported in some form from Europe.

Side note:

Habig exported large numbers of Alpen (or influenced) hats to the USA post WWII. Italian companies also made Alpen (or influenced) hats that they exported to the US market. US hat companies also marketed such hats post WWII.

 

[Brad Bowers]

I am thinking 50s. It is highly likely it was imported in some form from Europe.

Side note:

Habig exported large numbers of Alpen (or influenced) hats to the USA post WWII. Italian companies also made Alpen (or influenced) hats that they exported to the US market. US hat companies also marketed such hats post WWII.

Actually, it was made in Norwalk, CT. Crofut & Knapp had been making longhair finishes since at least the Teens, as they perfected how to make Cavanagh Edges with the long finish. This wouldn't have changed by the '40s or '50s. I also checked my notes, and they used "the finest of hare's fur" for their "soft finish and long staple."

Brad

 

[Dreispitz]

Yes, Mayserwegener, could be wool. It is certinly an alpine style and those hats were traditionally made of wool. Would be easy to tell once one could feel the actual piece in hands, though. Brad, certinly has the tactile sensitivity to tell. I still wonder why it is so uncommonly curly for hare or beaver? Did Dobbs try to imitate wool felt with more exclusive base material?

The cord is a definite giveaway for an south Germanic/Austrianesque type. The type of cord is to be found often, over here.

Now, how did it come to the USA in the fifties. Well, after WWII many US sevicemen took souveniers etc. back home. The economic links also intensified after the war and exceeded the pre-war level, including the german hat industry. You have companies like Wegener manufacturing Stetsons under license in Germany and also export to the US.

This particular stile might also have its origin in the mountainneer films. German/Austrian actor Luis Trenker was very famous as an actor and mountaineer ever since 1923, here. His is alpine style hat became a fastion epitome. You still speak of the "Trenker Hut" when it comes to casual sportive alpine-style hats.

Maybe, this fashion simply made its way over the Atlantic.

Trenker link

 

[mayserwegener]

Actually, it was made in Norwalk, CT. Crofut & Knapp had been making longhair finishes since at least the Teens, as they perfected how to make Cavanagh Edges with the long finish. This wouldn't have changed by the '40s or '50s. I also checked my notes, and they used "the finest of hare's fur" for their "soft finish and long staple."

Brad

l take you word on the felt content. I am sure if you steam and brush it would look different. From the photo it is deceiving.

I didn't say the hat was made in Europe. There was cooperation between US and Europe hat / felt producers before and after WWII so some part of it could have been imported.

 

[mayserwegener]

Yes, Mayserwegener, could be wool. It is certinly an alpine style and those hats were traditionally made of wool. Would be easy to tell once one could feel the actual piece in hands, though. Brad, certinly has the tactile sensitivity to tell. I still wonder why it is so uncommonly curly for hare or beaver? Did Dobbs try to imitate wool felt with more exclusive base material?

The cord is a definite giveaway for an south Germanic/Austrianesque type. The type of cord is to be found often, over here.

Now, how did it come to the USA in the fifties. Well, after WWII many US sevicemen took souveniers etc. back home. The economic links also intensified after the war and exceeded the pre-war level, including the german hat industry. You have companies like Wegener manufacturing Stetsons under license in Germany and also export to the US.

This particular stile might also have its origin in the mountainneer films. German/Austrian actor Luis Trenker was very famous as an actor and mountaineer ever since 1923, here. His is alpine style hat became a fastion epitome. You still speak of the "Trenker Hut" when it comes to casual sportive alpine-style hats.

Maybe, this fashion simply made its way over the Atlantic.

Trenker link

I am sure Brad is right about the content. It just looks like wool from the photo.

These style hats were present pre and post WWII here in the USA. I am sure the US military presence in Germany after WWII had some impact as you state.

Actually anti German sentiment was at its zenith at the time of WWI. Up to that point many German Americans (largest ethnic group in the USA) held strong to their culture and language (some became American custom).

 

[jamespowers]

Actually, it was made in Norwalk, CT. Crofut & Knapp had been making longhair finishes since at least the Teens, as they perfected how to make Cavanagh Edges with the long finish. This wouldn't have changed by the '40s or '50s. I also checked my notes, and they used "the finest of hare's fur" for their "soft finish and long staple."

Brad

Yep, its American made and likely hare. Wool was not on the map for Dobbs at that time. I sure would like to know the story behind who bought the hat, when and for what purpose.

 

[KILO NOVEMBER]

Humphrey Bogart in a 1948 Dobbs!

Fred C. Dobbs, that is.
http://www.imdb.com/media/rm1453168640/ch0012238

 

[jamespowers]

Actually, it was made in Norwalk, CT. Crofut & Knapp had been making longhair finishes since at least the Teens, as they perfected how to make Cavanagh Edges with the long finish. This wouldn't have changed by the '40s or '50s. I also checked my notes, and they used "the finest of hare's fur" for their "soft finish and long staple."

Brad

Ok, I checked with one of the foremost experts int he field and I don't know why I fell down on this one. :eusa_doh: The hat liner and sweatband fooled me I guess. I should have been looking more at the outside than the inside. Date yeah, off by a little bit. 60s-70s. The tribble finish, the cord and the reeded sweatband kind cinch it. Why do I hear the Shaft theme song int he background?

 

[Brad Bowers]

Eh, I could buy it as maybe '62 or '63, but not beyond. The innards just don't add up to a '60s hat. It's certainly not a '70s Koracorp-made hat.

Brad

 

[jamespowers]

Eh, I could buy it as maybe '62 or '63, but not beyond. The innards just don't add up to a '60s hat. It's certainly not a '70s Koracorp-made hat.

Brad

No not a Koracorp hat. lol lol The innards had me at the beginning as well. However they used that liner well into the 70s. The embroidered liner is more 1940s for sure. The reeded sweatband I could live with in the 1960s then again it is a 25 so its not like it was the cheapo model. Even an extra $5 got you something extra in the 60s.