The Dobbs Diner...

[Musashi]

It certainly has seen better days, but still has character. What were they asking for it? Could the felt be salvaged at all?

Yes, Twenty just refers to the price and has nothing to do with the style or features. Wider brims like that in 7 1/4 will be harder to come by and will be pricier on eBay, but they can be found. Just have to keep searching, and decide how much you're willing to pay.

Brad

I'm very new at this, but i have a few tiny moth 'divots' in one of my Stetsons to gauge by, but this Dobbs was quite bad.. there were many very visible places where it looked like a little tiny circle was gone.. like swiss cheese.. not ALL over the hat.. but in important, hard to hide places. My iphone camera was unable to capture the horror. I didnt count them.. but im guessing 20-40 of em! ..and the band.. literally looked to me.. almost MELTED IN to the felt at the bottom, shows a bit in the photo. reminded me of when the foam disintegrates on a 30-40 yr old speaker. The liner was all stained looking and the printing was obscured as well.

I didnt ask the price because i didn't consider buying it, I may go back and ask. If its dirt cheap (as it ought to be in that condition) I might pick it up as a reminder of something to look for a better example of, and to take measurements from. the dimensions were very nice.

 

[Salty O'Rourke]

I'd really like to pick up a Dobbs like this in my size. Are they rare? In high demand? actual age doesn't matter but the brim and crown height do.

The sweatband gives a clue to the age of the hat - the city of Warwick, VA existed from 1952, when the remaining bit of Warwick County was incorporated into a city, until 1958 when it combined with the city of Newport News.

 

[Musashi]

The sweatband gives a clue to the age of the hat - the city of Warwick, VA existed from 1952, when the remaining bit of Warwick County was incorporated into a city, until 1958 when it combined with the city of Newport News.

Oh hey Salty I had no idea you were so close by. If there are any to be had, I'd appreciate any tips to local spots to find headwear. I promise not to buy it all up. My main interest this early on is to SEE more hats and try on a few more. really figure out what I like. One at a time from ebay or $150-200 a try for new hats is a slow way to learn.

My wife's family dates back to Warwick area since just after WWII. I'm now definitely considering picking up that hat and seeing if it cant at least make an interesting curiosity in my house, if not wearable. Just hope they don't think its worth much with all those holes. If i pick it up I will post some picks with my good camera to show the true condition. i'd look alright on a hat stand!

 

[Brad Bowers]

The sweatband gives a clue to the age of the hat - the city of Warwick, VA existed from 1952, when the remaining bit of Warwick County was incorporated into a city, until 1958 when it combined with the city of Newport News.

I think that's the first time we've ever dated a hat based on the city's period of existence!lol The coach logo certainly fits with the mid-'50s.

Too bad the felt is in such poor shape, but it might still be worth it as a curiosity.

Brad

 

[Musashi]

I think that's the first time we've ever dated a hat based on the city's period of existence!lol The coach logo certainly fits with the mid-'50s.

Too bad the felt is in such poor shape, but it might still be worth it as a curiosity.

Brad

Well I went down there and it was $15 so i bought it just as a curiosity, as you said. I'll get some pics soon. Then I may try to use it as a 'learn to bash' practice dummy.

Is there a 'Worst Moth Damage' Thread? Shame too cause it's a 'wasted beauty' in my mind. It'll look good on the shelf. The Warwick thing really sold me on it. Now i gotta figure out the color and start searching ebay for one like it in nice shape and my size.

p.s. Holy Moses how did i get to 48 posts? this is addictive. Including this 'unwearable one i have now got 4 hats in hand and one in the mail from ebay. Thats a Dobb's as well but it could be wool. I wasn't careful enough in my searching. it was $35 shipped tho so no biggie. I bet its still nice for what it is.
I wanted to branch out from Stetsons.

 

[Salty O'Rourke]

Oh hey Salty I had no idea you were so close by. If there are any to be had, I'd appreciate any tips to local spots to find headwear. I promise not to buy it all up. My main interest this early on is to SEE more hats and try on a few more. really figure out what I like. One at a time from ebay or $150-200 a try for new hats is a slow way to learn.

My wife's family dates back to Warwick area since just after WWII. I'm now definitely considering picking up that hat and seeing if it cant at least make an interesting curiosity in my house, if not wearable. Just hope they don't think its worth much with all those holes. If i pick it up I will post some picks with my good camera to show the true condition. i'd look alright on a hat stand!

I'm on the southside, in Portsmouth. I've made the rounds of the thrift and antique stores over here with absolutely no luck, not even a moth-eaten vintage hat to be found. Not men's hats anyway; now women's hats are another matter - they're all over the place. I imagine estate sales are the best bet but I just don't have the time (or $$) to devote to them.

I stopped by Beecroft and Bull in Hilton Village when they closed that location in December. One of the older salesmen spotted my Borso and reminisced about going up to "New Yawk" every year when new menswear collections were being released and stating that "you just didn't go up theah without a new hat". He pointed out the shelving that ran along the upper part of the walls throughout the store and remarked that in the old days that's where they displayed their hats.

One thing you could do with that hat is practice moth-divot repair. There are a couple of threads outlining how it's done. You could get the hang of it on this hat, pick up a skill that might come in handy later on.

 

[Musashi]

Still have not gotten around to setting up my lightbox to take pics of my moth-eaten Dobbs Twenty from Warwick, But i did get my $29 ebay Dobbs 'modern' looking hat today in the mail. I love it. It's pretty mich just like my old stetson i inherited from my wifes grandfather, except its 7 1/4 , which means i dont have to take it to the STRETCHER and make it all wonky looking.. Oh and it corrects the other two probs that old stetson has. Its got a HIGHER crown and its got much less tapered sides...

and yea, I'm wearing a t-shirt. the whole family's ill and staying in the house.

 

[Musashi]

Dobbs Dined-ON

Finally took some pictures of the Moth-Buffet formerly known as a Dobbs 20...

Here they are on flickr. Don't want to put 15 photos in this post:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29458463@N08/sets/72157623556999094/


Heres a teaser tho:

YUM YUM Say the Moths!

 

[rlk]

Dobbs Leisure Light/Park Avenue

1930's Dobbs Leisure Light Park Avenue with 2-3/8" wide brim with Improved Felted Welt Edge(Cavanagh type of 1931 Patent date). Open Crown about 5-1/2" high. Thin soft and flexible 2-1/8" wide sweatband with deep embossing and rolled inside edge. Tassle at sewn sweatband seam has 5 lobes. The felt is very thin and light as well as soft. As light or lighter than Borsalino Alessandria or Pliafelt or Cross Country. Crown really soft and easily shaped with little force while the brim holds its flanging firmly.

1932 Ad:http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...UEUUAAAAIBAJ&sjid=K-kDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5323,164180
1939 adPay-Per-View - Chicago Tribune - ProQuest Archiver - Nov 18, 1939
ti) feeling that only a brims-up hat can give, this new Dobbs "Park Avenue" will make you feel smarter the you $. put it on I In and grey. 7 ...

 

[feltfan]

Finally took some pictures of the Moth-Buffet formerly known as a Dobbs 20...

Honestly, I think you could get a good hat out of that.
If I were you, I'd take this on as a project, assuming it fits well.
Once you pull the ribbon down a bit, there aren't that many holes.
There are techniques discussed at some length on this site for
minimizing moth bites using very fine sandpaper and needles and
possibly glue. The holes... what I would do is to take out the liner
and then at the site of each hole, punch more holes to form a pattern
you like. There are vintage hole designs on this site you can
mimic. The distribution of this ventilation will be unusual (unless you
can find a way to make an even distribution).

You could end up with quite a nice summer felt.

 

[KY_RudeBoy]

New-to-me Dobbs from ebay. I posted this in the ebay thread but I figured since it's a Dobbs, I can post it here too. I've had this hat a day now and I love it! The color is best shown in the picture of the inside of the hat. It's a dark gray.
I have a new Dobbs Glenwood in brown that is just as soft and light. I think this is my brand now.

 

[Musashi]

Honestly, I think you could get a good hat out of that.
If I were you, I'd take this on as a project, assuming it fits well.
Once you pull the ribbon down a bit, there aren't that many holes.
There are techniques discussed at some length on this site for
minimizing moth bites using very fine sandpaper and needles and
possibly glue. The holes... what I would do is to take out the liner
and then at the site of each hole, punch more holes to form a pattern
you like. There are vintage hole designs on this site you can
mimic. The distribution of this ventilation will be unusual (unless you
can find a way to make an even distribution).

You could end up with quite a nice summer felt.

You may be right. I'd be willing to do some sanding. I do a bit of scale modelling anyhow so i have the supplies (and patience) And getting the ribbon down.. well i know some ladies who are much better at sewing than i am who could help.

I was actually thinking of 'patching the holes by taking a tiny bit of felt from somewhere under the middle of the band and 'grafting them into the visible hole spots.

The real issue that keeps me from putting too much effort in is simply that the hat is a 7 (Maybe shrunk from its original size too.. ) and I wear a 7 1/4, so it won't even pretend to go on my head. and if i tried stretching it, I think those moth bites under the band would just stretch and rip.

I really do love the look of it. I have my eye out for one now. There are not a lot of older dobbs on ebay at the moment by my searching.

 

[rlk]

Dobbs Park Avenue?

A store or a hat? Both references were used.
1939 adPay-Per-View - Chicago Tribune - ProQuest Archiver - Nov 18, 1939
ti) feeling that only a brims-up hat can give, this new Dobbs "Park Avenue" will make you feel smarter the you $. put it on I In and grey. 7 ...
Hat is definitely flanged as an upturn and the brim is firm not intended to snap. Seems similar to this C&K Gallant.

 

[Brad Bowers]

A store or a hat? Both references were used.

Got to be a hat model. I don't believe Dobbs ever had a store on Park Avenue, but I can search through my archive to find out for sure.

Sure looks like the Gallant, doesn't it?

Were there any other factory tags under the sweatband? And is that a fabric barrier between the sweatband and the felt, or cellulose, or something similar?

Brad

 

[rlk]

Got to be a hat model. I don't believe Dobbs ever had a store on Park Avenue, but I can search through my archive to find out for sure.

Sure looks like the Gallant, doesn't it?

Were there any other factory tags under the sweatband? And is that a fabric barrier between the sweatband and the felt, or cellulose, or something similar?

Brad

I've found many references in News archives referencing the store from the 1940's some examples:
NEW DOBBS UNIT OPENED; Park Avenue Shop Adds Room for Its Women Customershttp://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F50A11FF3C5F1B7B93C4A9178FD85F418485F9

$3.95 - New York Times - Feb 3, 1944
A varied collection of easy-to-wear hats ranging from casual felt classics to flower-and-feather trimmed toques was presented by Dobbs Park Avenue during luncheon at the Waldorf-Astoria yesterday. Worn with fresh-looking suits and toppers designed by Vera Maxwell, the hats illustrated the diversity of flattering types suitable for spring tailleurs.

The material under the sweatband is ultra thin and extremely finely grained it may be Cellulose. Similar in color to oilcloth but thinner and smoother.

Seems to be some adjustable sweatband feature also.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Interesting, I did a search and came across a Dobbs store at 49th and Park Avenue in 1956, just a couple of blocks up the street from Cavanagh. I've got a partial list of Dobbs stores from the '20s and '30s started, but I gave up after a while, as they seemed to pop up all over the place and change locations frequently after the bankruptcy of the big Dobbs & Co. store. Most of their stores were on Fifth Avenue.

Is there a metal clip on that adjuster? Looks like it. It's a Trusize sweatband, and I've got one on my Dobbs Gay Prince. Patented by Abraham Blum in 1935. Everything else about that hat seems to be '35-'40, so gives us a good date.

Seems like nothing is printed on the factory tag, is that right? Unusual, for sure.

Brad

 

[rlk]

I
Seems like nothing is printed on the factory tag, is that right? Unusual, for sure.
Brad

No, just really tucked up under the reed cloth.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Whoa, what's the patent number on the reorder tag? I've not seen one printed with that before.

Edit: Enlarging the photo, it looks like John Garvan Cavanagh's patent 2143051 from 1939! I long wanted to see a hat finished by this process, and here one is! Too cool! I always wondered if that process was put to use, as I hadn't seen any references to it until now.

So, that firmly dates it between 1939 and 1944.

Brad

 

[rlk]

Improved Felted Welt Edge

Here's an edge detail. Seems a bit plumper and more gracefully finished than others I have.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Here's an edge detail. Seems a bit plumper and more gracefully finished than others I have.

In theory, it should be, as it has an extra layer inside it. Figure 5 is essentially yours:

In practice, I've used a micrometer on the Improved Cavanagh Edge, and some of them are actually thinner than a regular one, so it pretty much comes down to the finisher, what shackle they use, and how much.

I must say, that it a handsome Cavanagh Edge.

Brad