The Definitive Cavanagh Edge Primer *

[Stoney]

Stetson Patent for threadless welted edge

Although not a true Cav edge, this patented process by Stetson looks like it could be used to make a similar edge. I wonder why Hatco does not produce hat brims in this way as it seems that the process would produce a great result and could easily be adapted to a production environment.

http://www.ShareCow.com/Download.aspx?request=2a155396-e955-41d4-ba12-ee2e92d58087

 

[Brad Bowers]

This is one of several versions of the "Stuck Edge," which has been done in the past at the Garland plant. I don't know if this was the specific process used, however.

I wonder why Hatco does not produce hat brims in this way as it seems that the process would produce a great result and could easily be adapted to a production environment.

The demand is not there. Besides those of us on the Lounge, most hat wearers are not that educated in brim treatments, and probably don't really care whether or not their welt edge has stitches. And even though the Stuck Edge is a much simpler process that the felted welt edge, it still requires more labor (albeit, not much more!) than a standard welt edge.

If HATCO could be convinced this method is worth their trouble, they might try it. A Stuck Edge is a pretty convincing substitute for a Cavanagh Edge.

Brad

 

[feltfan]

http://www.ShareCow.com/Download.aspx?request=2a155396-e955-41d4-ba12-ee2e92d58087

That link doesn't work for me.

Edit: ah, it works as a download only.

I wonder if we could get Akubra to make a high
crown, 2 5/8" brim Fedora Lounge felted edge hat in a limited
run? All in 7 1/2 Long or Extra Long oval of course...

 

[jimmy the lid]

Great job, Brad. Thanks for sharing your labor of love! :eusa_clap


Cheers,
JtL

 

[Spellflower]

Very impressive, Brad! :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

Here's a closeup from my Dobbs Twenty with Guild Edge:

By the way, I just checked Wikipedia for "cavanaugh edge" and there's no entry. I'd strongly encourage you to post this info there!

 

[Viper Man]

Ah, but did you check "Cavanagh Edge"?

 

[AlanC]

Does anyone have links to the patents of the various Cavanagh edges and their variants? It would be nice to have them grouped here, but I can never find anything on the US patent site. *sigh*

 

[Brad Bowers]

I've got a folder full of the patents in pdf form, probably close to 30 of them, categorized by year and inventor on my computer. I'll pull out the info into a table or something for everyone this weekend. I'll use the Google patent links, because they are much easier to use than the USPTO website. Go figure.lol

Brad

 

[Brad Bowers]

The Cavanagh Puckered Welt

Here's one I call the Cavanagh Puckered Welt, for lack of a better name. It was more a design for a hat, rather than a patented process. John Cavanagh was always looking for new ways to style hats, as well as improvements in designs and methods for making them. One of these days I need to count up all the patents that he has.

Brad

 

[Spellflower]

Ah, but did you check "Cavanagh Edge"?

Wikipedia has never heard of that either.

 

[Tango Yankee]

Wikipedia has never heard of that either.

Have you noticed that if you use Google to search for "Cavanagh Edge" the first thing that comes up is a link back here to the Lounge? :cheers1:

Tom

 

[Spellflower]

I hadn't tried Google, but it doesn't surprise me. The Lounge is the largest repository of hat lore on the web. I think it would be cool, though, to start making some of the knowledge accumulated here available in wiki form, rather than just as threads. That way as new information is found, it can be easily added to the basic text, rather than scattered in future posts. Not that there's anything wrong with threads and posts- they work well for gathering info and discussing it. But a wiki would tidy things up once it's found (not that Brad's article needs any tidying up, mind you.) Fortunately, the internet allows us both options.

 

[Brad Bowers]

I'm hoping the first Google entry will someday be this particular thread, but it hasn't happened yet.

I realize the benefit of putting the info on Wikipedia, but I'm hesitant at the same time. I can only rewrite it so many times, and I still would like publish this is some form someday. I'd hate for someone to accuse me later of doing all my research on Wikipedia, when in fact I was the one who put it there in the first place.

Yes, the ability to edit would be an important feature. Looks like we have a limited time to edit our posts here on the Lounge, and already I see I've forgotten to mention that Mallory's name for it was the "Duplex Edge."lol

What are everyone's thoughts on my Wiki vs. publication (pipe dream) conundrum?

Brad

 

[AlanC]

Once you put it on Wikipedia you lose control of it. Anyone can edit and make changes to your work. I wouldn't do it were I you.

If you need to edit your original post just let me know and we can get it done. It's an article, really, not a 'normal' post.

It is possible to set up some sort of forum only wiki. I don't know what MK's opinion would be, but it would be possible to do.

 

[Spellflower]

FLikipedia!

This sounds like a good compromise. I'd still encourage Brad to post something (perhaps not as detailed) on Wikipedia, and link to this article as a source. It's true that you lose control of the end text in a wiki, but the benefit is that the text becomes stronger as people with different bits of info contribute. I imagine the question of who gets credit for original unpublished research has come up there before, but I haven't spent enough time in their discussion forums to know.

 

[ideaguy]

All matters aside, thank you, Brad. Nice piece of scholarship, and great reference material. It's men like you that make the whole engine run smoothly,and make it a delight to go cruising with more information
at our side.
Thanks again.

 

[feltfan]

I think the love of Cavanagh edges is partly because of scarcity. Anything rare or expensive becomes sought after just because of that.

Ever own or handle a hat with a Cavanagh Edge?

I like them because they look great and are innovative.
Part of why I seek them out is because they were used on
some of the better hats of the day, so it is a indicator of overall of quality.
They were sought after in the old days because they
were classy, of course, not because they were rare.

There are a lot of things about vintage hats that are
scarce. Almost any brim treatment, done well, is scarce.
Almost any felt you find in vintage hats is rare. And so on.

So the hat will be judged simply from its appearance. And a Cavanagh edge looks cheap to the layman. Instinctively we think that bumpy edges on

I'm not sure where "bumpy" came from. I've never met
a "layman" who thinks Cavanagh edges look cheap. Have you
conducted a study? What odd comments.

Point of a Cav edge is to quietly, without color change
or calling attention to itself, give form to the brim. People
pick up on a nicely formed brim.

If you can create a clean edge in any other garment without binding it, for instance, you don't bind it. Binding is just to hide a sloppy edge you couldn't

Sorry, but this just isn't true. There are lots of
garments that use edge binding for style, which is
what hats use it for. Think also of "piping". In any
event, what one does with fabric differs from what one
does with felt or leather, etc.

I realize there was a functional motive for Cavanagh edges: allowing lightweight hats to still have stiffish brims. Can this not be accomplished with stiffener selectively applied? If the edge itself needs to be thickened, rather

I imagine if simple stiffener would have done it, this would
have been a common practice. But I defer to a hatter on that. Cavanagh
edges were not exclusively, or even, in my experience, mostly,
used for lightweight hats. Most of the Cavanaghs and Cavanagh
Edge hats I have are relatively heavy felt. And a narrow grosgrain
brim binding would weigh less.

Sorry folks, but since this is a sticky thread, I thought I'd
rebut some of these opinions. Kabuto is, of course, welcome
to his opinions, but they aren't facts.

 

[tonyb]

And a Cavanagh edge looks cheap to the layman.

It does? Huh, coulda fooled me. My anecdotal experience says quite otherwise. My Cavanagh (or Mode or Guild) edge hats are among the likeliest to provoke the "nice hat" comments. Those, and the ones with the bound edges. Nothing against raw edges (got a few of those, too), but I am left to wonder if you aren't just projecting your own views onto "the layman."

 

[PhilS]

Just snagged a 7 1/2 XLO "Buffalo" Cavanagh Edge on Ebay

Listing didn't have any real details, so it was a pleasant surprise. The hat just screams quality.

It came with a pristine "Midnight" 6 7/8 Cavanagh (with John Wanamaker house logo) Homberg and a 7 5/8 Homberg from Morville's Mens Wear, Philadelphia. Both Hombergs are for sale, if anyone has any interest.

(1) The Edge
<a href="http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b92/philschatz/?action=view&current=IMG_4787.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b92/philschatz/IMG_4787.jpg" border="0" alt="2 Cavanagh Edge 7 1/2 XLO"></a>

<a href="http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b92/philschatz/?action=view&current=IMG_4786.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b92/philschatz/IMG_4786.jpg" border="0" alt="1 Cavanagh Edge 7 1/2 XLO"></a>

2. The Cavanagh Homberg
<a href="http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b92/philschatz/?action=view&current=IMG_4773.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b92/philschatz/IMG_4773.jpg" border="0" alt="1 Midnight Cavanagh 6 7/8"></a>

<a href="http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b92/philschatz/?action=view&current=IMG_4774.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b92/philschatz/IMG_4774.jpg" border="0" alt="2 Midnight Cavanagh 6 7/8"></a>
3. The Morville

<a href="http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b92/philschatz/?action=view&current=IMG_4779.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b92/philschatz/IMG_4779.jpg" border="0" alt="Morville 7 5/8"></a>

 

[Matt Deckard]

One of the best articles ever put on this forum Brad... Awesome!

I have a solid collection of vintage Cavanagh edged hats. It's actually hard to find a hat from the past that hasn't got some kind of edge treatment from under or over welting, to bound edges. My favorite hat before it was stolen had a beautifully self felted edge.

I'm not sure... maybe someday we'll see them again.