"The Death of the Grown-up"

[Diamondback]

You mean like the Sims??

How did I know, sooner or later, somebody was gonna throw down that card?

 

[carter]

"Grown up" isn't a thing. It's a state of being that says you have reached full physical development. There was a time that this included mental development but that seems to be the crux of this discussion.

"Adult" still leaves us with the concept of full physical developmet.

"Mature", ditto, not to mention all the old-age connotations.

It seems to me that this discussion has more to do with lifestyle choices and how they are perceived.

Is it possible that the traditional concept of the mature, grown-up, adult ended with universal conscription (the draft) in the US?

(This is a question not an opinion.)

 

[Fletch]

Is it possible that the traditional concept of the mature, grown-up, adult ended with universal conscription (the draft) in the US?

(This is a question not an opinion.)

I don't think so - remember we had no draft from 1918-1940. Were we less grown up, or perhaps the concept of adulthood wasn't yet the "traditional" one?

 

[Twitch]

Ok where do active seniors land in this? When I was a kid in the 50s men retired at 65, sat on the front porch for 2 years and promptly died of heart-related illness. No wonder SS was riding high! People over 60 didn't DO anything. I went to houses with my grandma, who was a do-er, where little old ladies sat in their perfect livingrooms doing absolutely nothing everyday till they died.


I'm 59 and passionate about PC games and there are more people in this age group than you'd think. But beyond that seniors are active in physical fitness and sports, volunteering, being active in organizations and traveling, having hobbies that connect to people outside their homes- thanks to the internet.

So don't forget that there is more to this society than a bunch of big kids. More than ever we have young-thinking older adults that aren't doing what the 30 years olds are but nonetheless are active to an extent unheard of in the Golden Era.

 

[Paisley]

I'll grant that responsible adults can have fun playing video games or dodgeball and it doesn't hurt anyone. But it just strikes an odd chord in me when I see

• 35-year-old men coming to work on a Saturday wearing bright athletic clothes that look like children's pajamas
• balding, 40-year-old men still listening to heavy metal
• 70-year-old doo-wop singers performing teenage love songs
• 30-year-old women wearing teeny bopper clothes
• 40-year-old women acting like giggling girls

There is no particular crime in any of these things, but I wonder why they don't want anything more sophisticated. Don't they ever get tired of being 16? Nothing wrong with revisiting your younger days, but I get the feeling some of these folks, in their hearts, have never left.

 

[TheKitschGoth]

[*]balding, 40-year-old men still listening to heavy metal

Just picking one thing out, I've had a few people over the years telling me that one day I'll "grow out" of the music I like now, and I've always been confused as to why I'm not allowed to like the same music once I'm a grown up? I know my mum still loves to listen to Black Sabbath nice and loud, and she's not exactly an irresponsible, immature person. [huh]

Is it sophisticated? Probably not, but what has sophistication got to do with maturity?

 

[Paisley]

There are some songs from my youth that I still like as well. But when I started listening to great singers and musicians from the Golden Era, most of the music from my youth just didn't hold a candle to it.

 

[carter]

Originally posted by Twitch
I'm 59 and passionate about PC games and there are more people in this age group than you'd think. But beyond that seniors are active in physical fitness and sports, volunteering, being active in organizations and traveling, having hobbies that connect to people outside their homes- thanks to the internet.

So don't forget that there is more to this society than a bunch of big kids. More than ever we have young-thinking older adults that aren't doing what the 30 years olds are but nonetheless are active to an extent unheard of in the Golden Era.

I couldn't have said it better (so I won't).

"Judge not, that ye be not judged." Now that seems to me a fitting response in most cases having to do with matters of lifestyle.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

I'll grant that responsible adults can have fun playing video games or dodgeball and it doesn't hurt anyone. But it just strikes an odd chord in me when I see

• 35-year-old men coming to work on a Saturday wearing bright athletic clothes that look like children's pajamas
• balding, 40-year-old men still listening to heavy metal
• 70-year-old doo-wop singers performing teenage love songs
• 30-year-old women wearing teeny bopper clothes
• 40-year-old women acting like giggling girls

There is no particular crime in any of these things, but I wonder why they don't want anything more sophisticated. Don't they ever get tired of being 16? Nothing wrong with revisiting your younger days, but I get the feeling some of these folks, in their hearts, have never left.

Eh, I will be 40 next year* and am prone to giggle fits. I hope that never goes away. I am not balding but can get into some heavy metal if I'm in the mood. I love to watch the aging doo-wopers on PBS before bed, and they sure look like they are having fun! I wear whatever I want to work- I work from home. lol

*Wishful thinking! I can't believe I typed next year. I meant this December. Yikes.

 

[Samsa]

I'll grant that responsible adults can have fun playing video games or dodgeball and it doesn't hurt anyone. But it just strikes an odd chord in me when I see

• 35-year-old men coming to work on a Saturday wearing bright athletic clothes that look like children's pajamas
• balding, 40-year-old men still listening to heavy metal
• 70-year-old doo-wop singers performing teenage love songs
• 30-year-old women wearing teeny bopper clothes
• 40-year-old women acting like giggling girls

There is no particular crime in any of these things, but I wonder why they don't want anything more sophisticated. Don't they ever get tired of being 16? Nothing wrong with revisiting your younger days, but I get the feeling some of these folks, in their hearts, have never left.

No doubt about it, I will still be listening to Metallica when I am in my 80s, if I ever make it that far.

But I'll also still be listening to Mozart and Debussy and Brahms.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

No doubt about it, I will still be listening to Metallica when I am in my 80s, if I ever make it that far.

But I'll also still be listening to Mozart and Debussy and Brahms.

I think the Stones will still be touring, too.

 

[Feng_Li]

I think the Stones will still be touring, too.

Saints preserve us all.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Saints preserve us all.

Especially the one that preserves Keith Richards.

.

 

[Paisley]

Grace Slick on Keith Richards et al.

From MorleyView's interview with Grace Slick:

antiMUSIC: I know you've said that all rock stars over 50 should retire but do you not feel periods of just wanting to get behind the mike at least and record?

Grace: No because if I do something I do it. All of it. In other words, showing up at the galleries, getting on the planes…I don't like it but that's part of it. If you make a record, you have to do the videos; go on the road to support it; do all the interviews, and I'm not a multi-tasker. Either I'm doing the painting thing, or I'd be doing music. But there's only two forms, one of them's rap and it's not even old enough to have anyone that's old, and the other is rock and roll. And they are young people's things. Now you can do classical music or rhythm and blues till you're 150 but not rock and roll and rap. It pains me to see old people leaping around trying to act like their 25. It's embarrassing. I just think 'Oh... honey. You don't have to get out of the music business: become a producer, write songs. But don't leap around and try to look like you're 35.' It's like those women on Hollywood boulevard who are about a million years old and they've got little cinch belts on and their hair beach blond and they're wearing spike heels and a big fancy skirt and you just think 'Oh, give it up. You're a million years old and you look like a jerk.' If you're 24 years old and you go back to grammar school and you say 'Hi, can I play jacks with you guys?' The kids would look at you like 'Oh, ... you know? It is harmless and if the Rolling Stones or Fleetwood Mac or whoever want to get up there and play and people want to see them, that's fine with me. I just don't want to do it. I felt like a jerk doing it when I was in my 40s.

antiMUSIC: I was just going to ask you about Mick and Keith then.

Grace: Well, Keith, now Keith, he can play forever because he's looked like he was about 150 since he was 25 and he's rhythm and blues so he can keep going for ever.. Mick, I learned how to be on a rock and roll stage from him. I didn't imitate him...But then I saw the Rolling Stones. That's rock and roll. So how do you behave on the stage? You have to own the stage. If you don't own it, sorry, you're out of the picture, you know?... But there's a time to give it up. For every season, turn, turn, turn. There is a time, blah, blah, blah. And you've got to know when that is, otherwise you look kind of sappy. And if you turn on the comedy channel, a whole bunch of other people feel the same way. Even about the Rolling Stones and people love them. But it's time to give it up. That doesn't mean people can't listen to your music, of course they can. They've got records, they have cds. They got ipods. Yeah, you can listen to the Rolling Stones, but you don't have to look at them when their 66 years old, with tight pants on. Oh please.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

"Ms. West, a columnist for the Washington Times, argues that the country is suffering a case of arrested development, with teen tastes and desires eclipsing traditional adult conduct and values. A good deal of evidence supports her. An obsession with play and self-expression and a resistance to limits--conventional hallmarks of adolescence--are increasingly strong "adult" themes too."

Grace Slick is hardly a good example of an authority on adulthood.

 

[Paisley]

Ad hominem argument.

Let's just hope none of the Rolling Stones breaks a hip.

 

[Miss Neecerie]

• 35-year-old men coming to work on a Saturday wearing bright athletic clothes that look like children's pajamas
• balding, 40-year-old men still listening to heavy metal
• 70-year-old doo-wop singers performing teenage love songs
  

There is no particular crime in any of these things, but I wonder why they don't want anything more sophisticated.

Who is to say that Heavy metal is less sophisticated then a different musical genre....music and musical tastes vary...but its all -notes- played.

Much like trying to argue that Monet is more sophisticated then Van Gogh.....matter of taste.

And sorry...as an office worker...if I have to come in to work on a Saturday...I am gonna wear whatever the -hell- I want...as I am not getting paid to be there...but am doing it for the -team-...they can survive my wearing shorts to an office that wont be ac'd etc....

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I invite Paisley to come live in Chile, where middle-aged men still "act their age" the Golden Era way (worn down with stress, family burdens, lack of exercise, huge debts, excessive scotch-drinking and extramarital "expenses" -- but hey, at least they wear suits and ties everywhere, and don't listen to heavy metal anymore.)

.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Ad hominem argument.

Let's just hope none of the Rolling Stones breaks a hip.

wikipedia: Ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the person", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim.

This is precisely what you have been doing- arguing against people because of what they are wearing or doing rather than addressing the substance of those very people many of whom embody adult qualities.

Maturity has taught me to not be so quick to judge, and that appearances often are deceiving. You judge maturity by clothing choice, music tastes and choice of career. I don't.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

The music taste argument is a strange one. I'm finally beginning to understand 'metal' (a friend of mine edits one of the better metal magazines). We went to see him DJ the other night and i was impressed. There is something very different about metal. The harmonised power chords at absurd velocity and never-predictable changes in time signature are at least interesting. I'd say it's far more accessible than the more 'arty' jazz or classical music, but this doesn't make it any more or less "adult".

As a man who wears luminescent sports clothes to work every day, i can understand the impulse to wear them on a saturday.

bk