"The Death of the Grown-up"

[reetpleat]

I see this all the time. Its ridiculous to not acknowledge that you are not 15 anymore.
Before you had rites of passage like marriage and then father/motherhood. Now everything is upside down and backwards. Responsiblity is shirked and You have people making stupid, spur of the moment decisions that were ill fated from the beginning.
That's why we have boomerang kids who just keep coming back to live in their parent's basement after every failure. Perhaps we need to take time to tell children over and over that life is what you make it. Life is a series of stepping stones to success and playing hopscotch with those stepping stones leads to failure more times than not.
For instance, you cannot just walk away from your high school graduation and into the boardroom as a CEO. That should be a goal not an immediate gratification expectation. This involves stepping stones like education, working your way up and accomplishing tasks to meet the goal.
To say that the man is against you and you will never get anywhere is a big joke unless you actually try. :eusa_doh:
I think the definite avatar of our society seems to be representative in the baseball cap. It is more prevalent than anything else on heads today. This a hat that was for baseball players and children has become the uniform of the forever child along with shorts/sweats, sandals and T-shirts. Their mind and their clothes never change. :eusa_doh:

Regards,

J

No offense, but if being an adult means thinking and talking like that, i will stay a perpetual adolescent.

I say Hooray for the throwing off of so called adult behavior. We all need to enjoy life more. As far as I can see, adults seem to be getting the job done just fine, raising fine kids that they can actually relate to and e=njoying life much more than my parents eer would have let themselves. I see my parents as sad, never having embraced all the joy that life offers them. I think we all need to be more possessed of the joy an d wonder of children and I hope I never lose what little I have left.

 

[reetpleat]

Thinking out loud (on a keyboard?) here....

I wonder if the (alleged) death of the grown-up is more to do with the popularity of the disposable elements of our culture, rather than what we do with our free time....

If you get married and it doesn't work out, what the heck, you can always get a quick divorce and no one any the wiser.
Or if you want a new car, you don't have to save up for it because you can get it on credit, and you'll probably "upgrade" it in a year or two anyway so what's the point in trying to keep it immaculate?

People just don't seem to have the same (moral? cultural?) obligation to take on responsibilities that my parents' generation did... which in one sense can only be a good thing. But I suppose because mistakes can be so much more easily undone without stigma now, people seem less inclined to think seriously before they make the mistake in the first place.

Just my thoughts, based on personal experience!

Thank god there is no longer much social stigma or legal difficulty in getting a divorce. Especially for women. A bad marriage is a bad marriage. Besides that, people are much more inclined to want more out of a marriage than a provider or raiser of the children. They want to actually like and enjoy their partner and to be able to actualize themselves as well.

As for cars or material things, thank god we live in an economy where we can afford to buy a new car or live alone as a young adult, although buying a house is getting more expensive all the time.

 

[reetpleat]

I think the concern about video gamers is that, unlike a card game or a board game, there is no interaction with people. It is just you and the screen. Even if you play someone via an internet connection, there is still no real interaction. There is no problem blowing off some steam on a video game. The problem arises when it begins to replace real human contact.

In class, I ask my college students what they watch on TV and I get blank looks. They don't watch the news to learn about the world they will soon be a part of, or even any entertainment shows, they instead play video games - endlessly. That's not good. And for young children the problem is much worse since it can lead to a sedentary lifestyle and the expectation of instant gratification. We don't have to look far to see why attention spans keep getting shorter and shorter.

We had Pong when I was a kid - you had to go do something else after a short time because the game got so darn boring.

Frankly, while I think overuse is a problem, I would rather any kid of mine played video games rather than watch most tv. At least it is somewhat interactive. Solitary hobbies have always been with us. Sure I have more respect for reading , wood working, hiking etc, but let's face it, adults have always had social and solitary pursuits, and always had edifying and non edifying hobbies. I will leave it up to the reader to decide where video games fit in.

 

[Paisley]

That's similar to the way I feel about a marriage. If there are no kids involved, and you've tried to work things out, why stay in a miserable marriage?

 

[Paisley]

No offense, but if being an adult means thinking and talking like that, i will stay a perpetual adolescent.

I say Hooray for the throwing off of so called adult behavior. We all need to enjoy life more. As far as I can see, adults seem to be getting the job done just fine, raising fine kids that they can actually relate to and e=njoying life much more than my parents eer would have let themselves. I see my parents as sad, never having embraced all the joy that life offers them. I think we all need to be more possessed of the joy an d wonder of children and I hope I never lose what little I have left.

I don't think acting like an adult has to be drugery all the time. Five years ago, I suddenly had the urge to jump on a trampoline. But not having one, nor a good place to put it, nor the desire to have the neighbors watch me use it, I looked for another outlet for this urge. I took up swing dancing.

Sorry your parents are so unhappy.

 

[Samsa]

What was it Jesus said? "Amen, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven."

 

[PrettySquareGal]

I think being childlike is a blessing, which is not to be confused with childish.

I think someone can work "low level" jobs and be mature and happy. What might seem like floundering or someone acting like a ne'er-do-well may in fact be a perfect lifestyle for them. I even think someone can be miserably married but happy being miserable with that person.

The bottom line is, I don't know, because I can't judge another's maturity level by those kinds of choices. But if they are showing up for their life in the way they see fit, and the bills are getting paid,and they are respectful of the people around them, who am I to judge?

 

[Samsa]

The bottom line is, I don't know, because I can't judge another's maturity level by those kinds of choices. But if they are showing up for their life in the way they see fit, and the bills are getting paid,and they are respectful of the people around them, who am I to judge?

Exactly.

And I certainly can't see myself judging someone because they play video games, watch cartoons, or wear a baseball cap.

 

[Mid-fogey]

I reckon...

...that folks are as grown up as they have to be. You grow up fast when you have to and you don't when you have no reason.

 

[Smyat]

ooh that might be fun to watch....someone can take pictures of her 'sporting' outfit!

Shhh! Someone will make it an "extreme sport" if you keep that up.

 

[Ben]

That's similar to the way I feel about a marriage. If there are no kids involved, and you've tried to work things out, why stay in a miserable marriage?

The one caveat to this is that kids should not grow up with unhappily married parents. Children learn about what relationships should be like by seeing their parents. That is why kids of abusers grow up to be abusers.

But even short of that, you don't want kids to think that marriage is about finding someone you tolerate or even just vaguely like. They should see their parents in healthy, adult relationships so that they can learn to form their own.

I agree that people should try to work things out, but I would never say people should stay married for the sake of the children.

 

[Fletch]

There's nothing wrong with serving coffee or answering phones or living with your parents. But if you're a 40-year-old who is broke (and in debt), wants to get married, travel, go to school and buy a house, and perhaps retire from work someday, drifting from one low-level job to another isn't going to help you. Getting economic inpatient care indefinitely from your parents isn't going to light a fire under you. (This topic was researched and presented in a book called The Millionaire Next Door. It's also been my observation of my nieces and nephews.) I'm afraid that if she stays with her parents more than a few months, my friend is just going to end up frittering her life away.

There is something to be said for throwing yourself into a world that basically doesn't want or need you, and learning what it takes to make a place for yourself.

Money isn't everything. Especially if it's unearned. You can be as modest and frugal as you please and people who earn their living can still tell you're not one of them.

 

[Paisley]

Theodore Roosevelt called it being in the arena.

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. Shame on the man of cultivated taste who permits refinement to develop into fastidiousness that unfits him for doing the rough work of a workaday world. Among the free peoples who govern themselves there is but a small field of usefulness open for the men of cloistered life who shrink from contact with their fellows. Still less room is there for those who deride of slight what is done by those who actually bear the brunt of the day; nor yet for those others who always profess that they would like to take action, if only the conditions of life were not exactly what they actually are. The man who does nothing cuts the same sordid figure in the pages of history, whether he be a cynic, or fop, or voluptuary. There is little use for the being whose tepid soul knows nothing of great and generous emotion, of the high pride, the stern belief, the lofty enthusiasm, of the men who quell the storm and ride the thunder. Well for these men if they succeed; well also, though not so well, if they fail, given only that they have nobly ventured, and have put forth all their heart and strength. It is war-worn Hotspur, spent with hard fighting, he of the many errors and valiant end, over whose memory we love to linger, not over the memory of the young lord who "but for the vile guns would have been a valiant soldier."​

I don't think Diana West is criticizing the odd individual here and there who won't grow up, but rather having a nation full of individuals who remain adolescents.

 

[Fletch]

Will it help if we create another nation - a nation of scolds?

You see, one thing we didn't used to have to deal with in TR's era so much as today was the concept of the loser. Valiant effort doesn't mean so much in a world where we only care about winning.

Lately we've turned the work ethic inside out and made it - perhaps unconsciously - a winning ethic. All kinds of values have been reduced to money and power.
Competition used to mean "build a better mousetrap." Now it means "eat or be eaten."
Responsibility used to mean looking out for the other fellow. Now it means rude self-reliance, never asking anyone to cut you a break - and never cutting anyone else a break.

The great and generous emotion and lofty enthusiasm TR knew are still around, but they don't win the day. High pride and stern belief are propped up by crass ambition and naked fear.

How are people supposed to keep going when every time they don't "produce," they're told they're useless?
Why are we surprised that some of them call bs on the whole game and refuse to do what now passes for "growing up"?

 

[jamespowers]

No offense, but if being an adult means thinking and talking like that, i will stay a perpetual adolescent.

I say Hooray for the throwing off of so called adult behavior. We all need to enjoy life more. As far as I can see, adults seem to be getting the job done just fine, raising fine kids that they can actually relate to and e=njoying life much more than my parents eer would have let themselves. I see my parents as sad, never having embraced all the joy that life offers them. I think we all need to be more possessed of the joy an d wonder of children and I hope I never lose what little I have left.

So you want adults running around thinking they are entitled to a living without concept of responsiblity or consequences?
Yep, that is perpetual adolescence. :eusa_doh:

 

[MK]

.

Miss West's topic is very similar to editor's column for the up coming issue of Classic Style. I haven't read her book, but it seems we have very similar takes on the subject. I might have to read it.

 

[Lady Day]

I think playing video games is just as legitimate as collecting stamps or playing chess. I don't think it's what you do. It's being able to put it into perspective and prioritizing that matters. Being a "grown up" is a lot different today than it was in the past.

Good point.
If you are an adult, and you play video games in your apartment/ house that you pay for yourself after a day at work, then good for you!

If you are an adult, and you play video games in your parent's basement, after quitting your third job at coffee shop store, because they didnt want to pay you enough, then you got problems and need to take a step back and prioritize.

I think the death of being a Grown-Up is people now thinking they can have everything along the way. Its the 'paying dews' that gets you in the frame of mind to be a hard worker, and will power keeps you there.


LD

 

[happyfilmluvguy]

What we need are video games where the main character wakes up in the morning, takes shower, puts on clothes, brews coffee, makes breakfast, eats breakfast, drinks coffee, reads newspaper, looks at watch, grabs house/car keys, locks door, gets in car, drives to work, sits at desk, fills out paperwork, eats packed lunch, goes back to work, watches clock 5 minutes before closing, leaves work, gets in car, drives home, turns on television, watches news while eating dinner, finishes dinner, watches more news, turns off television, puts on pajamas, brushes teeth, goes into bed, reads book with desk lamp, falls asleep, wakes up in the morning and starts all over again.

 

[Fletch]

National service for the common good is probably never going to catch on again (unless it's exclusively military, and a lot of us will fight it tooth and nail then). So what about a program of private internships?

Large corporations would take on young folks, pay them in vouchers rather than real money, and teach them to mark time, kiss up, take crap, sacrifice, delay, and deny for the good of the boss, the clients, and the shareholders.

When they came out, they'd know exactly what they're not entitled to out of life, and they'd have a more up-to-date, survival-oriented ideal of the work ethic than this quaint pre-industrial twaddle about the dignity of honest labor for fair pay.

 

[Joie DeVive]

What we need are video games where the main character wakes up in the morning, takes shower, puts on clothes, brews coffee, makes breakfast, eats breakfast, drinks coffee, reads newspaper, looks at watch, grabs house/car keys, locks door, gets in car, drives to work, sits at desk, fills out paperwork, eats packed lunch, goes back to work, watches clock 5 minutes before closing, leaves work, gets in car, drives home, turns on television, watches news while eating dinner, finishes dinner, watches more news, turns off television, puts on pajamas, brushes teeth, goes into bed, reads book with desk lamp, falls asleep, wakes up in the morning and starts all over again.

You mean like the Sims??