The Bowler or Derby Hat

[mayserwegener]

I've been wanting a proper English Bowler. Stefan found this British beauty for me. Made by C.S. Royle & Co. from London and Stockport, this older (1930s ?) Stiff Felt is light as a feather. I need to get it on a scale, but it is by far my lightest. The sweat is in great shape and has a wonderful light brown sheen. The front of the brim binding is a little tattered, I would like to think it is from tipping it to the ladies. I think it gives it some character. The tight curl is also a nice feature.


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Mike, Congrats! Fantastic Bowler! I think you are correct about the tipping and the wear. I have a few hats (Soft Felt, Stiff Felt, Top Hats) that were worn from tipping. Some were used by Livery.

 

[Redfokker]

Gorgeous hat Mike! Are you going to leave the binding alone or have it restored?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I kind of like the "story" it tells of this hat's life. I'll leave it for now. It is only tattered on about 2" of the front right.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I kind of like the "story" it tells of this hat's life. I'll leave it for now. It is only tattered on about 2" of the front right.

I completely understand. It’s earned its condition. Very cool to be able to wear a piece of history like that.

 

[Kuro]

Hello all!

I am considering purchasing a new higher quality bowler to replace one I have. My primary question, should I go vintage or modern? I know the obvious answer, but I am not a collector, and will wear the hat. I am looking for quality. That being said there are a few vintage NOS stetson hats on eBay at the moment, that I don't necessarily fear to wear, but would they fall apart from wear? I am a 7 1/4 size hat typically.

Or what are your thoughts on a Silk Finish Derby from Stetson? Quite expensive at $300, but I have seen them, and I like that it has a contrasting brown leather sweat band vs the normal black used in most of their current hats. It provides a nice vintage contrast to the hat. Or are there any modern brands you would recommend? Magill, Knox, Stetson?

Thank you!

 

[jlee562]

I'm not a stiff felt hat expert by any means, but....

The likeliest component on a vintage hat to cause an issue is the sweatband. Other than that, I don't think there's much risk in a hat "falling apart" from normal wear.

I don't particularly like the brim curls on modern bowlers, and vintage ones are relatively easy to find.

 

[Kuro]

Thank you. I assumed that would be the case, but I understand there are threads holding that sweatband to the hat etc. Looking at some of the hats in this thread... WOW, where does one find them? Where should I be looking? Are they all from eBay?

 

[Redfokker]

Thank you. I assumed that would be the case, but I understand there are threads holding that sweatband to the hat etc. Looking at some of the hats in this thread... WOW, where does one find them? Where should I be looking? Are they all from eBay?

Ebay and Etsy would probably be best. A good Derby (American) or Bowler (English) can be had for less than $100 almost all the time. Be patient, and one will come around that is just right.

 

[Kuro]

These look nice, I am curious about other people's thoughts, it is a good way to learn by observing others and asking questions. Thanks for the Etsy recommendation!

https://www.etsy.com/listing/577289229/large-bowler-hat-vintage-lock-co-coke?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=bowler hat 7 1/4&ref=sr_gallery-1-1

This one needs more pictures, which I have asked for. I am intrigued by NOS and that it is a 3x, which was as I understand a good quality Stetson.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Au...167210?hash=item33e05790ea:g:CIQAAOSw05taZoai

 

[M Hatman]

These look nice, I am curious about other people's thoughts, it is a good way to learn by observing others and asking questions. Thanks for the Etsy recommendation!

https://www.etsy.com/listing/577289229/large-bowler-hat-vintage-lock-co-coke?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=bowler hat 7 1/4&ref=sr_gallery-1-1

This one needs more pictures, which I have asked for. I am intrigued by NOS and that it is a 3x, which was as I understand a good quality Stetson.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Au...167210?hash=item33e05790ea:g:CIQAAOSw05taZoai

The etsy one looks awesome !! The ebay one I STRONGLY suspect is in fact a soft crown homburg......they were all originally sold open crown. Sellers make that mistake all the time, calling EVERY open crown hat a derby or bowler.....I have bought many such "bowlers" that were homburgs or fedoras......
M
Edit: Red was right in that better deals are available pretty regularly on derbys.....

 

[Kuro]

The etsy one looks awesome !! The ebay one I STRONGLY suspect is in fact a soft crown homburg......they were all originally sold open crown. Sellers make that mistake all the time, calling EVERY open crown hat a derby or bowler.....I have bought many such "bowlers" that were homburgs or fedoras......
M
Edit: Red was right in that better deals are available pretty regularly on derbys.....

Ahh, OK, that makes sense about the eBay hat. Still, I could be happy with soft crown hat as well, shape it as I like etc. Not trying to change subject, just interested in the quality. The Etsy hat would be $210 with shipping... I am considering it.

 

[MondoFW]

Ahh, OK, that makes sense about the eBay hat. Still, I could be happy with soft crown hat as well, shape it as I like etc. Not trying to change subject, just interested in the quality. The Etsy hat would be $210 with shipping... I am considering it.

Since you're much into bowlers, not only do I agree that vintage is the way to go, but consider getting a particularly old model, even an ANTIQUE. Some of the older bowlers were made with very impressive leather for sweatbands and absolute artworks of liners. A 40s/50s bowler will still be leagues ahead of a modern equivalent, but if I were into this particular hat, I would shoot for a few decades earlier than that! You'll be impressed by the tremendous quality of them. The only component you'll really have to worry about with an antique is the sweatband, which can easily be replaced (and I would advise preserving it). Still, you can wear the original sweatband for a while, granted it was taken care of (This is more likely, because bowlers are very ubiquitous and were usually lightly worn) Good luck with your hunt for the right hat!

 

[mayserwegener]

Ahh, OK, that makes sense about the eBay hat. Still, I could be happy with soft crown hat as well, shape it as I like etc. Not trying to change subject, just interested in the quality. The Etsy hat would be $210 with shipping... I am considering it.

It looks to be in good shape. You might want to offer a lower price. As mentioned Stiff Felts are not in high demand so you can usually get the seller to drop the price. I just did that with a mint C.G. Wilke Stiff Felt.

 

[steur]

The concensus here is that it's best to go for a vintage one and they can be had at very decent prices. There's a great looking Knox in your size listed on Ebay right now. Not listed as a bowler, just as a black hat. Good luck.

 

[Kuro]

Thank you all. I am looking around. I believe I found the Knox hat on eBay that was mentioned:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/knox-hat-b...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

I have also noticed a Dunn & Co bowler, made with a red liner that looks very nice. I understand they are common enough that I have seen a few on eBay for a steal from my opinion. So I probably will be looking for one of them in UK 7 1/8 which should fit me I understand.

If anyone has something they think I might enjoy purchasing, from your collection or otherwise, feel free to PM me. I am still blown away by some of the hats found on this thread. Many of those german bowlers look amazing!

 

[Kuro]

Just following up. I purchased the Knox that was on eBay in 7 1/4. I will post better pictures when it arrives. I have posted a few WTB ads on the classified forum, but I think I am zeroing in on a particular Stetson at the moment. Expensive, but if I did my study right, should be worth the effort.

 

[Redfokker]

Thank you all. I am looking around. I believe I found the Knox hat on eBay that was mentioned:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/knox-hat-black-new-york-vintage-7-1-4/323346009110?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

I have also noticed a Dunn & Co bowler, made with a red liner that looks very nice. I understand they are common enough that I have seen a few on eBay for a steal from my opinion. So I probably will be looking for one of them in UK 7 1/8 which should fit me I understand.

If anyone has something they think I might enjoy purchasing, from your collection or otherwise, feel free to PM me. I am still blown away by some of the hats found on this thread. Many of those german bowlers look amazing!

That Knox is not a bowler/derby. It is a soft felt hat. Not a bad one for the price, just not a derby. If you are a 7 1/4 I might be able to help. I'll send a pm later today.

 

[mayserwegener]

C. G. Wilke "Helios", 58cm, Wool, 186 grams, possibly late 1920s to 1930s. This Wool Stiff Felt is in near mint condition so a great find. The liner really shines especially at the center so that might be the reason for calling it "Helios". I didn't get a good photo of the label because I didn't want to break the super fine threads that hold the sweatband together. The sweatband has a reed on the outer edge which is fairly common with old German and Austrian Stiff Felts.

 

[steur]

Just following up. I purchased the Knox that was on eBay in 7 1/4. I will post better pictures when it arrives. I have posted a few WTB ads on the classified forum, but I think I am zeroing in on a particular Stetson at the moment. Expensive, but if I did my study right, should be worth the effort.

That Knox is not a bowler/derby. It is a soft felt hat. Not a bad one for the price, just not a derby. If you are a 7 1/4 I might be able to help. I'll send a pm later today.

Still looks like a bowler to me, I have to say. I could be mistaken of course, but the narrow ribbon has me thinking it must be a bowler and not a open crown homburg. Curious what it turns out to be.

 

[BobHufford]

Still looks like a bowler to me, I have to say. I could be mistaken of course, but the narrow ribbon has me thinking it must be a bowler and not a open crown homburg. Curious what it turns out to be.

I think Mike @Redfokker may have been referring to the hat that eBay redirected him to (once you hit a completed auction).

 

[steur]

I think Mike @Redfokker may have been referring to the hat that eBay redirected him to (once you hit a completed auction).

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Hey, that's odd. If I click on the link I still get the original auction. That would explain it though.