Want to buy or sell something? Check the classifieds
  • The Fedora Lounge is supported in part by commission earning affiliate links sitewide. Please support us by using them. You may learn more here.

The Bowler or Derby Hat

Joshbru3

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,409
Location
Chicago, IL
Early 1900's Caravan Derby (Von Hal Hats)

Well this Derby was a shocker. I bought it because it had a really cool sweatband stamp, but upon looking under the sweat, to my surprise, I have my first VON GAL HAT! Hawes Von Gal made hats in their own brand name, but also did private label work. In the little bits of information I have been able to piece together about the company, it started life as the HAWES hat company and then around 1902-1903 it merged with the E.J. von Gal Hat Company and was called the Hawes Von Gal hat company until around 1911-1912 where the Hawes name was dropped from some advertisements to only leave the Von Gal Hat Company. Some advertisements still used both names, "Von Gal made hats" and "Hawes Von Gal." Whats interesting is that even though the name changed to the Hawes Von Gal hat company around 1902 or 1903, many advertisements in THE AMERICAN HATTER and MEN'S WEAR still referred to the company as the Hawes hat company. The reorder tags also just said "HAWES" for a bit. I am unsure when the company actually used "Hawes Von Gal" on the reorder tags and sweatband stamps. This Caravan Derby has the "Von Gal" name on the reorder tag. Also the original price tag for the hat is stapled to the sweat and very faintly says $4. I would date this hat to around 1911 or 1912 if its a "Hawes Von Gal hat, but I'm unsure if this hat was made at the E.J. von Gal factory and therefore the reason that the reorder tag only says, "Von Gal." I suspect that since the hat was made in Danbury, Conneticut and not in Niagra Falls, New York (where the E.J. von Gal Hat Co manufacturing building was located), that this hat was MOST likely made by the "Hawes Von Gal" manufacturing plant post 1911-1912 when the "Hawes" name was dropped from the labels. Whats REALLY CONFUSING is that I've seen many references that show that E.J. von Gal Hat Co Limited and Hawes Von Gal Incorporated existed at the same time under similar management. My dates could be completely off because the info is all over the board, but if anybody can help me solidify any of these dates, I would really appreciate it.

DSC06503.jpg


DSC06506.jpg


DSC06507.jpg


DSC06508.jpg


DSC06510.jpg


DSC06514.jpg


DSC06515.jpg


DSC06516.jpg


DSC06519.jpg


Here's an advertisement from 1911 that shows the "Von Gal Made Hats" logo which I have not seen on any advertisement prior to 1911.

1911HawesVonGal.jpg
 

Joshbru3

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,409
Location
Chicago, IL
Early 1900's Caravan Derby (Von Hal Hats) Cont...

DSC06517.jpg


DSC06518.jpg



Here's a picture from the Niagara Falls Library Archives of the E.J. von Gal Hat Co Manufacturing plant:

http://www.nflibrary.ca/nfplindex/show.asp?id=94992&b=1

E. J. Von Gal Manufacturing Co., on the corner of Queen St. & Zimmerman Ave., Niagara Falls, ca 1914

EJvonGalManufacturingplant1914.jpg


"this building was originally built as a factory manufacturing mountings & accessories for carriages, later they manufactured hats; later still it became the King Edward Hotel, until it burned down; - the building on the far right of the picture was the Michigan Railway Station"
 
Messages
17,466
Location
Maryland
Josh, Great find! Also super historical background information. I really enjoy seeing old pre WWI hats. As you know I am also very interested in the old ones. :)
 

Joshbru3

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,409
Location
Chicago, IL
Josh, Great find! Also super historical background information. I really enjoy seeing old pre WWI hats. As you know I am also very interested in the old ones. :)

Thanks, Steve! I've been trying to find as much as I can about Hawes Von Gal, but its difficult because I haven't seen anything past 1915 or so. I would assume that the company went out of business around then, but I can not find any documents that state that they dissolved the company or went into bankruptcy. These old hats are such treasures. I just can't seem to get enough of them. :)
 

Joshbru3

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,409
Location
Chicago, IL
FANTASTIC Josh! What a great bow, and the D'Orsay is extra-streamlined. Very cool.

Thanks! I was kind of shocked how flat the curl really is. I really hadn't noticed the bow at first, but I thought it was so cool that the middle has a really cool "twist" to it.
 

bowlerman

I'll Lock Up
Messages
6,294
Location
South Dakota
Received this today:
Sarnoff-Irving derby. The only real flaw is a separation starting to happen at the front panel of the back of the sweatband (see photos). It's very cool. The seller described it as "a wool felt ladies hat" but...
Truthfully the finish is not as smooth as my other vintage derbies and I have to wonder whether maybe there is some wool in there (?). My only rationale is that I'm led to believe that wool derbies didn't start to go into production until after this vintage profile, including the D'Orsay curl, was already out of the market.
Thoughts on this? Even if it is wool, it's a pretty neat hat. I'm embarrassed that I'm kind of on the fence about the material!

Pics will be necessary, but imageshack is acting weird on me. I will update later.
 

bowlerman

I'll Lock Up
Messages
6,294
Location
South Dakota
imgp2436copy.jpg

imgp2432copy.jpg

imgp2433copy.jpg

imgp2434copy.jpg


Here she is... I still think it's wool. It doesn't seem to have a direction to the (albeit short) nap, and attracts pet hair more like my wool hats do. I foolishly threw it on my head this morning and tore the sweatband from the stitching for about 3 inches, but still wearable.
 
Messages
17,466
Location
Maryland
Great find! It does have a wool look to it based on my experience. Most of my old German Melone (Bowler) are made of wool. If you want to force your way through this rough translation it describes the wool felting process for Bowlers used by Wilke Hutfabrik (starts around page 46).

https://www.box.net/shared/0bun4bvrlhaspmhuj1d1

This is a link to my Negretti (type of wool used for hats) Adonis Melone for comparison.

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/58-negretti/page__view__findpost__p__321

Negretti (wool) Adonis

4796482610_67424523dc_b.jpg
 
Last edited:

bowlerman

I'll Lock Up
Messages
6,294
Location
South Dakota
Then it must be.

...and I ruined it. That tear in the sweat caused the well-known chain reaction and I just couldn't help but remove it the rest of the way... Ad it to the list of hats needing new sweatbands I'm hoping sending to Parker soon.
 

Brad Bowers

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,187
I'm not so sure it's a wool hat. That's a pretty typical price for a fur felt Derby at that time. If it was a wool hat, the price would be around $1.00 to $1.50. My guess is that it just has a rougher finish to it.

Brad
 

bowlerman

I'll Lock Up
Messages
6,294
Location
South Dakota
Hm. Good to know. The finish is certainly rougher and seems more on par with my wools, but I'm at a loss. Not that it really makes any difference at this point, but is there a more foolproof "litmus test" so to speak, to tell for certain?
 

bowlerman

I'll Lock Up
Messages
6,294
Location
South Dakota
Much appreciated, Al and coble! I tend to trim much more casually on a daily basis, but I found those specs at a costume shop and couldn't resist the opportunity.
The tie has a harpsichord keyboard pattern a little further down.... ;)
 
Messages
17,466
Location
Maryland
I'm not so sure it's a wool hat. That's a pretty typical price for a fur felt Derby at that time. If it was a wool hat, the price would be around $1.00 to $1.50. My guess is that it just has a rougher finish to it.

Brad

The Negretti wool Melone I posted doesn't have the construction elements of a low end hat. I was thinking it might be wool but that wasn't confirmed until I stumbled across the meaning of Negretti. As you can see it does attract lint but it appears to be absent of any of the other issues with wool felt. I am pretty sure this hat is over 100 years old.

Here is what I assume is a German soft wool felt hat from the same time period and general location (Bradenburg - Saxony).

5005129738_0e917739a2_b.jpg
 
Last edited:

Forum statistics

Threads
108,998
Messages
3,072,356
Members
54,039
Latest member
GloriaJama
Top