The Bowler or Derby Hat

[Historyteach24]

You have to read the description some sellers take returns others do not.

 

[Viseguy]

You have to read the description some sellers take returns others do not.

Thanks, that makes sense.

Do people find that sizes run different in bowlers and other rigid hats? I'd never worn anything other than a 7-1/2 until I got the bowler. The 7-3/8 that I have is snug, but not uncomfortable. And, man, it does stay on in a wind.

 

[alanfgag]

Not different, but perhaps less forgiving than a fedora. The bowler wants to fit just so. Of my three, one is a little full, one a little tight, and one fits just right... just like goldilocks.

 

[fmw]

You have to read the description some sellers take returns others do not.

It matters not what they say. All Ebay sellers have to take returns. The buyer simply files a "not as described" complaint with Ebay.

 

[danofarlington]

I haven't read all 54 pages of this thread (yet), so maybe the information is already here; if so, apologies.

BTW, I for one don't think people are obligated to read all 54 pages of this thread or any other. In my opinion, the purpose of an interactive forum is to ask questions of the moment and get answers or comments. Research is a separate question, and a separate task. I don't seek to impose the burden of "required reading" before anyone can interact on a forum such as this. I know that's heresy, but I think that's got to be the understanding. Research only if you feel like it!

 

[mayserwegener]

Not different, but perhaps less forgiving than a fedora. The bowler wants to fit just so. Of my three, one is a little full, one a little tight, and one fits just right... just like goldilocks.

Some of mine were definitely conformed. Similar to what you see with Top hats.

 

[Viseguy]

It matters not what they say. All Ebay sellers have to take returns. The buyer simply files a "not as described" complaint with Ebay.

But "not as described" isn't the scenario I have in mind. The buyer advertises a size 7-1/2, it arrives and is a size 7-1/2, but doesn't fit. Unless there's a no-questions asked returns window, it seems to me I'm stuck. (Well, I'd have to resell it to one of you. )

 

[Viseguy]

BTW, I for one don't think people are obligated to read all 54 pages of this thread or any other. In my opinion, the purpose of an interactive forum is to ask questions of the moment and get answers or comments. Research is a separate question, and a separate task. I don't seek to impose the burden of "required reading" before anyone can interact on a forum such as this. I know that's heresy, but I think that's got to be the understanding. Research only if you feel like it!

If it's heresy, then I sympathize with it, to a degree. It kind of goes with the territory of an unmoderated forum. But I've run a forum (not apparel-related) for 10+ years and have participated in enough others to know that generic, open-ended questions from newbies can become tedious for forum regulars. Focused, informed questions produce more interesting, productive answers, in my experience. In my defense (if I need one -- and I'm glad to hear you think I don't ), I did do some Googling and corresponded with Art F. (though not yet with Graham at Optimo) before posting here. I've got to believe there's somebody stateside who can do this ... but who?

 

[Brad Bowers]

I did do some Googling and corresponded with Art F. (though not yet with Graham at Optimo) before posting here. I've got to believe there's somebody stateside who can do this ... but who?

Viseguy, welcome to the Lounge, and welcome to the world of Derbies! If Art suggested you call Graham, then that is probably your best bet. I would trust Art to make one, but it's his call.

As others have suggested, I also recommend going the vintage route. Sure, it can be a gamble, but there are so many nice Derbies out there that you can easily find one that fits in short order.

From my nit-picky point of view, there are a several of problems with Derbies today, and I have yet to see any American manufacturer or custom hatter turn out a proper Derby. First, most custom hatters get their felt from Winchester in TN, and they'd probably have to order a special run of black felt with enough shellac in it to make a proper Derby, an expense they might not want to do for a one-off hat. It might be possible to saturate the body with enough shellac during the finishing process, but I'd hesitate to use that much surface shellac, as opposed to the core shellac during the felting process. One of these days I'm going to experiment with it and see how it turns out, though.

The second problem is that most modern Derbies will use fairly thick felt, unlike the old days. To me, there's nothing like the drumhead-tight thumpability of a thin, hard vintage Derby crown. And the method use to bind the edge is something else that is not replicated today, due to time and cost.

Third, and perhaps most important, no one does a proper D'Orsay curl - though Christy's/Lock & Co. come the closest by far. It also is a bit more time-consuming. Most manufacturers and hatters will put a simplified modern Homburg curl on the hat and call it a Derby. For me, that's a deal breaker.

Trust me, once you get your hands on a nice and proper vintage Derby, you'll never want a modern one again.

My two cents, for what it's worth.

Brad

 

[alanfgag]

very worthwhile .02, Brad - thanks for posting them.

 

[fmw]

But "not as described" isn't the scenario I have in mind. The buyer advertises a size 7-1/2, it arrives and is a size 7-1/2, but doesn't fit. Unless there's a no-questions asked returns window, it seems to me I'm stuck. (Well, I'd have to resell it to one of you. )

No, you aren't stuck. You simply file a "not as described" complaint with ebay. Ebay forces the seller to accept a return and Paypal gives you back your money. It has little to do with with a "not as described." Just like a professional seller will always accept a return because it is good business, the amateurs on Ebay are forced to do it because it is good for Ebay's business.

 

[bowlerman]

Hi everyone-- I'm brand new here, and have developed somewhat of an obsession with hats over the past 2-3 years. I've collected several of varying qualities and styles (some are awful), and call me crazy, but I have a thing about the open crowns, particularly bowlers with both western and European flair. Perhaps some of you will have other opinions once I figure out how to post images... always in search of the perfect topper. I'm by no means a connoisseur [yet] , but you all are posting some fantastic hats here! I've recently ordered from Clearwater and Tim Bender, but haven't received either yet. Anyone have some experience with these folks?

 

[mayserwegener]

Welcome! Looking forward to seeing your collection!

 

[Viseguy]

Brad, many thanks for your thoughts. You make a compelling case for vintage. I need to do some homework -- starting with this thread, and your wonderful blog, which I've just begun to read. First steps on what promises to be an interesting journey.

 

[bowlerman]

Here's one of my more interesting vintage bowlers. It doesn't get worn a ton because of the saturated color, but I know some of you (Brad???) may be of assistance identifying the maker. The only marking on the interior is detailed below. Any ideas-- maker, or era?

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[Viseguy]

Here's one of my more interesting vintage bowlers. It doesn't get worn a ton because of the saturated color, ...

Fine-looking hat! Is it really blue?

Edited to add: filename is navybowler.jpg. Duh!

 

[bowlerman]

yep. REALLY blue!

 

[danofarlington]

Here's one of my more interesting vintage bowlers. It doesn't get worn a ton because of the saturated color, but I know some of you (Brad???) may be of assistance identifying the maker. The only marking on the interior is detailed below. Any ideas-- maker, or era?

[/IMG]

Because it's blue, we know it's from the Depression Era.

Get it? Blue? Depression? Oh, never mind.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Very nice-looking Derby (although it could be a Bowler, not enough information to tell), and the color is wonderful! Don't see too many in that color. Sorry, I'm not familiar with the logo/company in question.

Brad

 

[DanielJones]

That is one nifty bowler you have there. Brad is right, you don't see that color too often in a bowler. Very nice!

Cheers!

Dan