The Bowler or Derby Hat

[Rmccamey]

The Hatted Professor website might give you some clues.

Can someone help me date these two Knox Bowlers?

 

[Steve1857]

Can someone help me date these two Knox Bowlers?

My initial reaction is circa 1920s/30s.

Two nice finds, btw.

 

[Wedowns]

Can someone help me date these two Knox Bowlers?

 

[steur]

Battersby first quality bowler. Size 56 (I think) with the brim at 5,5cm and the crown at 13cm. This hat has a had a tough life it seems and has been mucked about with. The brim binding is is not original as it is petersham ribbon and done poorly likely even glued (!). The sweatband is reeded on both sides with the reed sticking through in several places. It has been reattached at some time it seems. The liner has been glued in and could be a replacement. The hat weighs 164 grams and is probably thirties. It deserved better, but what can you do?

 

[steur]

Picked this one up in Tours, France, while on vacation there. Had a few dings and bumps, but nothing that couldn't be easily fixed.
JB Zephyr bowler in a size 56. Brim at 5cm and the crown at 13 cm. It is indeed "zephyr" in weight as it only weighs 103 grams. Not entirely sure about the maker though. The JB Zephyr points toward Jean Bourrel, but the size label has the letters BSF or SBF on it, which doesn't ring a bell. Sold by Eugene Butscher of La Rochelle.

 

[Steve1857]

Battersby first quality bowler. Size 56 (I think) with the brim at 5,5cm and the crown at 13cm. This hat has a had a tough life it seems and has been mucked about with. The brim binding is is not original as it is petersham ribbon and done poorly likely even glued (!). The sweatband is reeded on both sides with the reed sticking through in several places. It has been reattached at some time it seems. The liner has been glued in and could be a replacement. The hat weighs 164 grams and is probably thirties. It deserved better, but what can you do?

.

A Battersby Bowler that has been through good times and bad. Nevertheless, well worth saving, and thank you for doing so, Stefan.

 

[steur]

A Battersby Bowler that has been through good times and bad. Nevertheless, well worth saving, and thank you for doing so, Stefan.

Thanks, Steve. I would have liked it to have been NOS, but it's perfectly wearable as it is, warts and all.

 

[Steve1857]

Thanks, Steve. I would have liked it to have been NOS, but it's perfectly wearable as it is, warts and all.

NOS is great, but warts and all give character.

 

[Mean Eyed Matt]

Battersby first quality bowler. Size 56 (I think) with the brim at 5,5cm and the crown at 13cm. This hat has a had a tough life it seems and has been mucked about with. The brim binding is is not original as it is petersham ribbon and done poorly likely even glued (!). The sweatband is reeded on both sides with the reed sticking through in several places. It has been reattached at some time it seems. The liner has been glued in and could be a replacement. The hat weighs 164 grams and is probably thirties. It deserved better, but what can you do?

Love the Battersby Logo with the Lions!

 

[Mean Eyed Matt]

Picked this one up in Tours, France, while on vacation there. Had a few dings and bumps, but nothing that couldn't be easily fixed.
JB Zephyr bowler in a size 56. Brim at 5cm and the crown at 13 cm. It is indeed "zephyr" in weight as it only weighs 103 grams. Not entirely sure about the maker though. The JB Zephyr points toward Jean Bourrel, but the size label has the letters BSF or SBF on it, which doesn't ring a bell. Sold by Eugene Butscher of La Rochelle.

Wonderful! You can see the light weight straight away.

 

[Mean Eyed Matt]

Hutfabrik Josef Pichler & Söhne, Graz "Flexible", FP 5 3/4, possibly 1930s. Old Hutfabrik Josef Pichler & Söhne, Graz hats are not common especially in my size. I believe this is Fur Felt with a Chamois like finish. Based on the condition it must not have been worn often. Also a FP quarter size 5 3/4 so 58.5cm. An extra bonus is that it came with the original cardboard shipping box which rarely survived.

Original Box from Hutfabrik Josef Pichler & Söhne, Graz.

Wonderful and well preserved Melone, Steve.
I think you can narrow down the dating - at least of the box: The address label at the bottom right says “NS-Gaudruckerei Graz”, which means it must have been printed between 1940 and 1945, when the Nazis, with the support of the Austrian fascists, had incorporated the state of Austria into the German Reich and restructured it into Gaue (1940). Graz was the capital of the Reichsgau of Styria: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsgau_Steiermark
The number combination 1226/40 could (but this is not certain) indicate that it was manufactured directly in 1940.

 

[mayserwegener]

Wonderful and well preserved Melone, Steve.
I think you can narrow down the dating - at least of the box: The address label at the bottom right says “NS-Gaudruckerei Graz”, which means it must have been printed between 1940 and 1945, when the Nazis, with the support of the Austrian fascists, had incorporated the state of Austria into the German Reich and restructured it into Gaue (1940). Graz was the capital of the Reichsgau of Styria: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsgau_Steiermark
The number combination 1226/40 could (but this is not certain) indicate that it was manufactured directly in 1940.

Matt, Thanks. I also saw that after posting.

 

[mayserwegener]

Friedrich Steinberg Herrmann & Co. Hutfabrik Luckenwalde (STECO), J. Hückel´s Söhne, "N.P.U" (Non Plus Ultra), "Exquisit", F.P. Size 7, 153 grams, possibly early to mid 1930s. The Stiff Felt body plus Band + Binding were made by J. Hückel´s Söhne and I was able to find the "N.P.U" trademark. See below for details. Usually the JHS paper label size is plus one the actual size but this one might be 61 cm. It's possible the sweatband and liner were supplied by STECO to JHS or applied by STECO.

Luckily, I was able to find that the N.P.U. (Non Plus Ultra) trademark was used by Friedrich Steinberg Herrmann & Co. Hutfabrik Luckenwalde.

JHS Stiff Felts Post WWI Type 2 Paper Label.

Heinrich Esders Dresden

 

[Rmccamey]

A beautiful hat and an interesting bow treatment.

Friedrich Steinberg Herrmann & Co. Hutfabrik Luckenwalde (STECO), J. Hückel´s Söhne, "N.P.U" (Non Plus Ultra), "Exquisit", F.P. Size 7, 153 grams, possibly early to mid 1930s. The Stiff Felt body plus Band + Binding were made by J. Hückel´s Söhne and I was able to find the "N.P.U" trademark. See below for details. Usually the JHS paper label size is plus one the actual size but this one might be 61 cm. It's possible the sweatband and liner were supplied by STECO to JHS or applied by STECO.

Luckily, I was able to find that the N.P.U. (Non Plus Ultra) trademark was used by Friedrich Steinberg Herrmann & Co. Hutfabrik Luckenwalde.

JHS Stiff Felts Post WWI Type 2 Paper Label.

Heinrich Esders Dresden

 

[dkstott]

I've really been enjoying the look of the bowler worn by Martin Freeman in the PBS series Sherlock Holmes.

Love the thin ribbon and the shape of the brim..

 

[Rmccamey]

Me too. I'm sure it is personal or observation bias, but I tend to notice a lot of those curvy, swoosh brims (my term) in old west photos and movies.

I've really been enjoying the look of the bowler worn by Martin Freeman in the PBS series Sherlock Holmes.

Love the thin ribbon and the shape of the brim..

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