The Bowler or Derby Hat

[deadlyhandsome]

Anyone here familiar with this brand?

Thanks in advance!

 

[steur]

Anyone here familiar with this brand?

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Thanks in advance!

Looks like a nice hat, Brent. Can't help you with the brand I'm afraid: seems like Carlton was a name that was used quite a bit by manufacturers. I had this one once, but it doesn't look the same.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Looks like a nice hat, Brent. Can't help you with the brand I'm afraid: seems like Carlton was a name that was used quite a bit by manufacturers. I had this one once, but it doesn't look the same. View attachment 217409 View attachment 217410

Thanks, Stefan. I guess I’ll know soon enough as my offer was excepted. My prior attempts at pulling off a derby didn’t go so well, but seeing how good Randy looks under one I thought I’d try again.

 

[steur]

Thanks, Stefan. I guess I’ll know soon enough as my offer was excepted. My prior attempts at pulling off a derby didn’t go so well, but seeing how good Randy looks under one I thought I’d try again.

Fingers crossed, Brent. It's amazing how many shapes and variations there are of the humble bowler!

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Fingers crossed, Brent. It's amazing how many shapes and variations there are of the humble bowler!

My first was a 1950s Cavanagh and the brim was just too small.

I guess since this derby was made in the UK I’m going to have to remember to call it a bowler or coke.

 

[Steve1857]

My first was a 1950s Cavanagh and the brim was just too small.

I guess since this derby was made in the UK I’m going to have to remember to call it a bowler or coke.

A Bowler if you please, Brent
Congrats on the buy. Can't wait to see you in it.

 

[Steve1857]

Anyone here familiar with this brand?

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Nice find Brent, congrats on the buy. It's a new one on me. As Stefan mentioned in another reply, the name Carlton is often used. Even Lock & Co have a Fedora named the Carlton. The inference, of course, is to the Ritz-Carlton, the epitomy of high quality since the beginning of the last century.

I wouldn't be surprised if this one has a Manchester link. Be interesting to see any marks or labels under the sweat.

 

[Rmccamey]

Glad I had a positive influence!

Thanks, Stefan. I guess I’ll know soon enough as my offer was excepted. My prior attempts at pulling off a derby didn’t go so well, but seeing how good Randy looks under one I thought I’d try again.

 

[mayserwegener]

J. Hückel´s Söhne "Elastic", measures 58cm, possibly later 1920s early 1930s. The sweatband bow was missing so I installed a new one. I couldn't find a paper label. Possible modifications were made because there was a felt strip applied to the back side of the felt at the front edge level (most likely) for cushioning.

 

[steur]

Trying to get back onto my favourite followed threads on the FL after the powers that be on the FL have removed the Tapatalk option.

Here's an oldie but goodie Manchester Bowler.

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Still had this on my to do list. Found the book with the list of manufacturers! It's in the "Denton and the archeology of the felt hatting industry" by Michael Nevell et al. Hartley and Boedeker are not on the 1902 or on the 1945 list. I did find some other information on the company though.
The earliest mention I could find of them was in a street directory for Manchester of 1903 as being located in new Market Lane number 8. They are listed as "merchants"

They are mentioned in Slaters Manchester, Salford and suburban directory of 1911 as located in Market Lane as a trader in all classes of goods.

And they are mentioned in the post office trades directory (I believe 1906), indeed under the hatters (just above Henry Heath, lower left). Under that caption wholesellers were also mentioned though, which I believe they were.
Here's something else I found. A rather lovely old hat box, which some misguided soul felt she should improve upon (I'll spare you the "after" pictures). These are the "before".

 

[Steve1857]

Thanks for that, Stefan.

I believe you're right about them being more of a mens general department store than hatters per se. I found something similar while searching the internet.

Love that box. I dread to think what the after photos look like.

I found this site on line. I don't know if you know it. It has some interesting info but even better photos.

https://andrewsandpygott.wordpress.com/2011/02/08/the-great-british-hat-makers/

Stay well, my friend

Still had this on my to do list. Found the book with the list of manufacturers! It's in the "Denton and the archeology of the felt hatting industry" by Michael Nevell et al. Hartley and Boedeker are not on the 1902 or on the 1945 list. I did find some other information on the company though.
The earliest mention I could find of them was in a street directory for Manchester of 1903 as being located in new Market Lane number 8. They are listed as "merchants"
View attachment 221827
They are mentioned in Slaters Manchester, Salford and suburban directory of 1911 as located in Market Lane as a trader in all classes of goods.
View attachment 221825
And they are mentioned in the post office trades directory (I believe 1906), indeed under the hatters (just above Henry Heath, lower left). Under that caption wholesellers were also mentioned though, which I believe they were.
Here's something else I found. A rather lovely old hat box, which some misguided soul felt she should improve upon (I'll spare you the "after" pictures). These are the "before".

View attachment 221828 View attachment 221829 View attachment 221830 View attachment 221831

 

[SteveFord]

Here are two beauties which I really like.
The one on the right appeared on Broadway in My Fair Lady quite some time ago, the other one appeared on my door step in a Priority Mail box.
I think I'll turn the My Fair Lady one into one of the hats in steady rotation as it's taken a tumble at one time and it's too cool of a hat to just leave sitting in a closet.
I think it enjoys the attention...

 

[Rmccamey]

Very interesting hat history, Steve.

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Here are two beauties which I really like.
The one on the right appeared on Broadway in My Fair Lady quite some time ago, the other one appeared on my door step in a Priority Mail box.
I think I'll turn the My Fair Lady one into one of the hats in steady rotation as it's taken a tumble at one time and it's too cool of a hat to just leave sitting in a closet.
I think it enjoys the attention...

 

[SteveFord]

I was thinking about how people view items as I was driving home with it last Fall.
To his wife it was just old clutter to get rid of, to his kids it was something that they didn't want and could care less about but to the owner this old hat was an important part of his life that he was passing on.
By the way he didn't want to let me go you could tell it meant a lot to him and the smile on his face when he put it on was just great to see.
I wish I would have brought a camera along.

 

[SteveFord]

Who doesn't love a good bowler (or derby)?
They really seem to be catching on this season.

 

[Rmccamey]

Mallory. As I recall, someone said the '23 headstone logo was 28 to 32 vintage?

 

[Tukwila]

Mallory. As I recall, someone said the '23 headstone logo was 28 to 32 vintage?

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I'm not sure... I recall hearing the '23 logo means it was pre-'46, when Stetson bought the brand. Either way, it's a gorgeous hat.

At least with Stetsons, a taped sweatband, versus sewing at the ends, means somewhere around the '20s???

 

[Rmccamey]

Thanks Doug.

I'm not sure... I recall hearing the '23 logo means it was pre-'46, when Stetson bought the brand. Either way, it's a gorgeous hat.

At least with Stetsons, a taped sweatband, versus sewing at the ends, means somewhere around the '20s???

 

[Rmccamey]

I'd be interested to see and hear about your oldest bowler, Steve @mayserwegener

J. Hückel´s Söhne "Elastic", measures 58cm, possibly later 1920s early 1930s. The sweatband bow was missing so I installed a new one. I couldn't find a paper label. Possible modifications were made because there was a felt strip applied to the back side of the felt at the front edge level (most likely) for cushioning.

 

[mayserwegener]

I'd be interested to see and hear about your oldest bowler, Steve @mayserwegener

Randy, Fantastic Mallory! Somehow I missed your posting.

I am not really sure. This Stiff Felt could go back to 1880s (see below). It's tiny (54cm)
but I picked it up because it was special (at least to me). I usually only buy hats in my size range or larger. I have come across some old Stiff Felts but they are usually tiny or in very poor condition.

Georg Miech Dresden