The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD

[neuron]

Not much to add to what @Daniele Tanto has already said above, except that "Rusco" is a colour we have not seen before, which is always nice to see. I really like the look of the "narvalo". Welcome to the lounge and to the Borsalino Brotherhood.

Thank you for the welcome plus comments, and I appreciate the honor of being part of the BB, and a member of TFL.

Perhaps, after these Borsalini are rehabbed , and I learn how to photograph them like the ones above mine in this thread (really gorgeous!), I'll repost with natural lighting).

 

[Christopher Smith]

Joe you leave me a difficult task
I looked at the three Borsalinos that appeared yesterday with interest and I drew some conclusions that I wanted to sleep on before exposing them, because the first is the one that engaged me the most in its "identification".
@ Cristopher Smith First of all it was obvious to me that the hat has characteristics that for some reason are not very logical. The lining is that of the pre-war Borsalinos in Italy, in Europe the one with blue and red colors was used. Not always, knowing Borsalino's desire to consume any available material, does the sweatband seem more recent to me. The paper tag is from a hat made before World War II, but they are also found on hats made just after the end of the war. Alternative to all this: the hat was "refurbished" after the Second World War by the importer who used a new sweatband. In short, there is something that, in my personal opinion, is not logical in its appearance as it was found. In any case, the hat is very beautiful.
@ neuron The other two presented are more datable and readable. Both were built for the Italian market. The first, the color "Rusco", a dialect word from Bologna which means "garbage" is relatively recent, let's say from the Sixties - Seventies. Helios means nothing. It was a little marketing for the retailer. I would like to see the real color in light and shadow. The second, "Narvalo" color was made in the 1950s or 1960s. I haven't seen the seller, but "Esportazione vietata" is another little Borsalino marketing touch often used for hats without the retailer's name on the lining or/and sweatband. Two nice hats

Hello Daniele, thank you for all that information. I thought the wind cord retained too much elasticity to be true vintage. The leather sweatband is also very soft and pliable, but I know the craftsmanship in vintage ones is different than modern ones. The fact that the fold lettering is basically etched (I don't know the right word but almost carved into the leather, there is a texture and the lettering is indented into the leather) makes me feel the leather is vintage and just held up well. The lining is thicker compared to modern day ones in feel and definitely has a different, almost I would say softer feel to it. I mean that differently than the smoothness of modern day linings. Could you confirm if it is at least authentic vintage? I also think it may be beaver fur specifically. I have had rabbit borsalinos that soaked through in the rain and got ruined. I wore this hat in a more moderate I'd even call it a heavy rain standing outside my apartment in my trench coat. I wanted to test the material in a controlled environment where I could rush inside if the hat felt like it wasn't holding up (and I could feel like Humphrey Bogart in the ending of Casablanca). The hat got pretty soaked but held its shape and the lining and leather came away from this completely dry, not a drop of water got through. Also, when I steam it there is a certain smell it gets that I've only had with beaver hats, never rabbit. I don't know how to describe it, but it is almost kind of musty scent that comes out only when I steam it.

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Hello Daniele, thank you for all that information. I thought the wind cord retained too much elasticity to be true vintage. The leather sweatband is also very soft and pliable, but I know the craftsmanship in vintage ones is different than modern ones. The fact that the fold lettering is basically etched (I don't know the right word but almost carved into the leather, there is a texture and the lettering is indented into the leather) makes me feel the leather is vintage and just held up well. The lining is thicker compared to modern day ones in feel and definitely has a different, almost I would say softer feel to it. I mean that differently than the smoothness of modern day linings. Could you confirm if it is at least authentic vintage?

Ciao Christopher, the answers to your feelings and observations are a little complex and I will try to be concise.
Of course, the Borsalino you have is vintage, as long as we agree on what vintage means in the production of hats. For the production of European hats, there were excellent products up to thirty/forty years ago and even more recently. The reason is that here, industrialization in the production of hats has been slower than in other parts of the world and above all there has remained a strong manual skill even in the producers who had industrialized production. Your Borsalino has a couple of eras old in its production and the components that make it up.
I have seen and own other examples of Borsalinos that at a certain point in their life went to some hatter's table to get some "refreshment" after an intense operational life. That being said all your observations on the quality of the components are personal, but far from determining the age of the hat. At Borsalino they were masters in reproducing hats in various vintages that had shapes and styles from decades earlier

I also think it may be beaver fur specifically. I have had rabbit borsalinos that soaked through in the rain and got ruined. I wore this hat in a more moderate I'd even call it a heavy rain standing outside my apartment in my trench coat. I wanted to test the material in a controlled environment where I could rush inside if the hat felt like it wasn't holding up (and I could feel like Humphrey Bogart in the ending of Casablanca). The hat got pretty soaked but held its shape and the lining and leather came away from this completely dry, not a drop of water got through. Also, when I steam it there is a certain smell it gets that I've only had with beaver hats, never rabbit. I don't know how to describe it, but it is almost kind of musty scent that comes out only when I steam it.

No, sorry to disappoint you, but it's not beaver.
When Borsalino and any other European manufacturer put a "noble" fur component in the felt, they clearly specified it because this meant an appropriate price for the use of a precious component. You will always find the majority component of the felt specified in the manufacturer's language on the sweatband and lining, be it beaver, nutria, mink, wild hare and other furs other than rabbit or sheep.
Felt in Europe has always been a mixture of different hairs with different proportions starting from wool as the basic component. Consider that the basic felt for dressing us over the centuries was wool and the hats, jackets, coats, sweaters and anything else were made of wool often treated to be waterproof. My grandfather, a mountain artilleryman and therefore Alpine, fought in the Alps in the First World War, wearing a treated wool cape as his main waterproof.
Wearing hats on rainy days can be very romantic, but a detriment to the hat if it is not specifically built for that purpose.
I think it is better to buy an umbrella to do experiments on keeping hats in the rain, or a sturdy hat that comes from the Australian area or is suitable for this purpose.

 

[neuron]

Allora, Daniele: so despite the designation "Qualitá Extra Superiore", on the lining of my brown hat, there's no reason to think that it's made of beaver or rabbit, either. (Extra isn't even a word in Italian, is it?)

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Allora, Daniele: so despite the designation "Qualitá Extra Superiore", on the lining of my brown hat, there's no reason to think that it's made of beaver or rabbit, either. (Extra isn't even a word in Italian, is it?)

Certainly the felt of your Borsalino contains rabbit and other types of fur.
Italian felts, given the limited supply of local fur, were made of furs mixtures. I have very interesting documentation on the manufacture of felt taken from the newspaper of the Italian hatters in the Twenty and Thirdy and from other historical sources from the Golden Age of hattery
Beaver felt is not a standard in Italian and European hat making, in fact it is an expensive felt, when used, which becomes a rarity, but is not synonymous with guaranteed quality.
I have a few questions: do you like the felt of your Borsalinos?
What are the differences between the two?
This is the meaning and etymology of the word Extra
èxtra-, èxtra [from the Latin extra «outside»]. 2. In the language of commercial advertising (on the model of the French extra, a shortened form of extraordinaire), it is used as a prefix with a superlative value, similar to Italian. stra- (e.g.: extra-fine butter), or, as an unchanged adjective, to indicate superior quality (e.g.: extra butter, extra oil, of extra quality), or, finally, with adverb use, to indicate in degree, in a superior way (extra virgin oil; extra large format).

 

[neuron]

Yes, the Borsalino felts are lovely. The brown hat's felt is "plusher" to the touch, however. They're the same thickness, but I feel that brown one is thicker, fuller.

I am familiar with the "extra" in French, and "stra-" in Italian (stravecchio, strastaginato). I thought it odd to mix languages in a 3 word indication of quality. I thought it could be one of the marketing plots you talked about in an earlier post.

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Just to give a reminder to this thread with an old photograph

When in Italy the hats were transported with a medium truck

 

[TimmyV]

Borsalino Peluche in Steel Gray.