The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD

[Mean Eyed Matt]

Hello everyone and thanks for your kind and as always very interesting answers that I had the big pleasure to read on my last post.
Exactly as promised, today I am going to show you the other Borsalino Antica Casa that came together with the black one I showed you some days ago. Same absolutely perfect conditions as the other. As I wrote in the last post, the original owner of these 2 hats died in 1943, some months before the seller was born. I think this is a really legendary hat.
This is the life companion of the mysterious same-sized (59cm) black Borsalino Antica Casa that appears to be born before 1920 (I would date it around 1915, please correct me if you have to): wonderful brown colour called VIRGINIA (from the inscription on the internal celled label), very high and full crown, darker brown ribbon; the light-coloured sweatband with the marking "QUALITA' SPECIALE" shows on his back a writing that indicates exactly the same serial number on the celled label (556) making me think that the sweatband is also original.
The wonderful and very elegant pink/champagne liner is made of a type of silk that I have NEVER seen before, which is kind of shiner and much thinner than the other liners' silk I have seen before. The same mysterious golden "X" on the liner as for the black one is present and in this case it is covering the "Qualità superiore" logo; the liner itself indicates that the hat was originally made for the american market (hat shop LOGAN PHILLIPS located in Jackson, Mississippi).
The internal celled label, completely handwritten (from the same person writing on the label of the black one) appears to be of the oldest type, it is short and narrow and the serial number is very low also in this case (556).
No doubt it is a real Borsalino Antica Casa, but the "golden X" mystery remains.
Another hat which is a pearl and that I am so proud to begin wearing!
I pick this occasion to give you all my best wishes for a merry Christmas and a happy new year 2024, that will make our hats become even older
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What a wonderful hat - like the other one before: Fantastic!

I already followed the discussion about the strange X on your first Borsa and wondered whether it really had anything to do with Borsalino and 'unrecognisable' stamping or similar - in a gold stamp. Now I'm wondering again, and please excuse me if this is a far-fetched and stupid thought: Could it perhaps be that it is 'simply' the individual marking of the owner - instead of the small tin letters or the gold embossed initials in the sweat? Old German (and other) hats - top hats, for example - from the imperial era or from the 1920s often have elaborate gold embossing on the lining, sometimes with crowns for higher aristocratic owners. A large X in gold is certainly easy to recognise at the cloakroom in the dark.

Just a thought...

 

[Francesco1992]

What a wonderful hat - like the other one before: Fantastic!

I already followed the discussion about the strange X on your first Borsa and wondered whether it really had anything to do with Borsalino and 'unrecognisable' stamping or similar - in a gold stamp. Now I'm wondering again, and please excuse me if this is a far-fetched and stupid thought: Could it perhaps be that it is 'simply' the individual marking of the owner - instead of the small tin letters or the gold embossed initials in the sweat? Old German (and other) hats - top hats, for example - from the imperial era or from the 1920s often have elaborate gold embossing on the lining, sometimes with crowns for higher aristocratic owners. A large X in gold is certainly easy to recognise at the cloakroom in the dark.

Just a thought...

Dear Matt, thank you so much for your big appreciation. I had never considerated this idea before but it could be an interesting opinion: the individual marking of the hats would be one of the most reasonable explanations of this strange fact. I don’t think, in the case of the brown hat, that Borsalino did not want to sign it for some reason: this is more likely on the black one. This would be an absolutely perfect high-quality hat so Borsalino had no reason not to sign it (we don’t find any Borsalino logo printed on the sweatband which on the other hand is completely original, but Who knows). The other has the same quality but liner and sweatband come from different places, so maybe that’s why. I will wait for other opinions also because I think this is a very very interesting topic.

 

[harrytemp]

Anyone downsizing their wonderful collection? 60/61 size here.

Let me know.

 

[M Hatman]

Dear Matt, thank you so much for your big appreciation. I had never considerated this idea before but it could be an interesting opinion: the individual marking of the hats would be one of the most reasonable explanations of this strange fact. I don’t think, in the case of the brown hat, that Borsalino did not want to sign it for some reason: this is more likely on the black one. This would be an absolutely perfect high-quality hat so Borsalino had no reason not to sign it (we don’t find any Borsalino logo printed on the sweatband which on the other hand is completely original, but Who knows). The other has the same quality but liner and sweatband come from different places, so maybe that’s why. I will wait for other opinions also because I think this is a very very interesting topic.

I cannot see anyone putting X's in their hats for personal identification....especially with gold leaf paint.

I would venture another (unpopular here on the lounge where everyone thinks their hat came direct from the factory, but logical) opinion....these hats were sold second hand by an unauthorized dealer (and possibly renovated, explaining the mismatched liner and sweat).

This is STILL done today in many, many second had stores where named brand goods have labels covered over with permanent marker (often an "X") or even cut, removed or otherwise violated to show these are not new goods and/or are seconds or even re-furbs.

Back in the day they had a LOT of second had clothes dealers......(and PROFESSIONAL renovators).

Street seller (from my collection)

Renovation shop (also from my collection).

Almost every town had second hand shops and hat renovators......as seen here:

HATTERS, CLEANERS, AND DYERS!!!!!

Here is a thread dedicated to OUR (ones you collect and OWN) business cards, ads, photo's and associated ephemera of HATTERS, Cleaners, and Dyers of old (lets say at least more than 30 years old)!!! I will note: MANY hatters offered cleaning services and MANY cleaners offered cleaning and...

www.thefedoralounge.com

 

[steur]

Hello everyone and thanks for your kind and as always very interesting answers that I had the big pleasure to read on my last post.
Exactly as promised, today I am going to show you the other Borsalino Antica Casa that came together with the black one I showed you some days ago. Same absolutely perfect conditions as the other. As I wrote in the last post, the original owner of these 2 hats died in 1943, some months before the seller was born. I think this is a really legendary hat.
This is the life companion of the mysterious same-sized (59cm) black Borsalino Antica Casa that appears to be born before 1920 (I would date it around 1915, please correct me if you have to): wonderful brown colour called VIRGINIA (from the inscription on the internal celled label), very high and full crown, darker brown ribbon; the light-coloured sweatband with the marking "QUALITA' SPECIALE" shows on his back a writing that indicates exactly the same serial number on the celled label (556) making me think that the sweatband is also original.
The wonderful and very elegant pink/champagne liner is made of a type of silk that I have NEVER seen before, which is kind of shiner and much thinner than the other liners' silk I have seen before. The same mysterious golden "X" on the liner as for the black one is present and in this case it is covering the "Qualità superiore" logo; the liner itself indicates that the hat was originally made for the american market (hat shop LOGAN PHILLIPS located in Jackson, Mississippi).
The internal celled label, completely handwritten (from the same person writing on the label of the black one) appears to be of the oldest type, it is short and narrow and the serial number is very low also in this case (556).
No doubt it is a real Borsalino Antica Casa, but the "golden X" mystery remains.
Another hat which is a pearl and that I am so proud to begin wearing!
I pick this occasion to give you all my best wishes for a merry Christmas and a happy new year 2024, that will make our hats become even older
View attachment 573785 View attachment 573786 View attachment 573787 View attachment 573788 View attachment 573789 View attachment 573790 View attachment 573791 View attachment 573792 View attachment 573793 View attachment 573794

Another fabulous find, Francesco. We're no closer to the riddle of the X's on the liner, but there's no doubt this is and old hat. Virginia is a colour that can be found in the 1912 Borsalino catalog, but it's the first time we see an example of it.

 

[Mean Eyed Matt]

I cannot see anyone putting X's in their hats for personal identification....especially with gold leaf paint.

I would venture another (unpopular here on the lounge where everyone thinks their hat came direct from the factory, but logical) opinion....these hats were sold second hand by an unauthorized dealer (and possibly renovated, explaining the mismatched liner and sweat).

This is STILL done today in many, many second had stores where named brand goods have labels covered over with permanent marker (often an "X") or even cut, removed or otherwise violated to show these are not new goods and/or are seconds or even re-furbs.

Back in the day they had a LOT of second had clothes dealers......(and PROFESSIONAL renovators).

Street seller (from my collection)
View attachment 574175

Renovation shop (also from my collection).
View attachment 574176
Almost every town had second hand shops and hat renovators......as seen here:

http://[URL]https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/hatters-cleaners-and-dyers.99090/post-2613210

[/URL]

View attachment 574177
View attachment 574178

In fact, it's a very interesting idea that I would never have thought of, because where I live, no second-hand shop would bother to cross out the brand labels with an X - anyone who buys there knows that it's not first-hand goods. The fact that the conventions for this could be completely different at other times and in other contexts didn't even occur to me - although I follow your posts in the Hatters&Dyers thread with fascination... So thanks for the food for thought

 

[M Hatman]

In fact, it's a very interesting idea that I would never have thought of, because where I live, no second-hand shop would bother to cross out the brand labels with an X - anyone who buys there knows that it's not first-hand goods. The fact that the conventions for this could be completely different at other times and in other contexts didn't even occur to me - although I follow your posts in the Hatters&Dyers thread with fascination... So thanks for the food for thought

Crossing out the labels in second hand stores is not about the buyer knowing.....it is about the implications to the brand and liabilities of a shop having license to sell some high market goods.

It is also about the customer potentially defrauding another shop with "seconds" or even trying to return to a retail establishment for money or credit back (stores until recently would often offer credit for returned goods without a receipt. Heck, until recently you did not even need a receipt for Walmart (and many other stores) after Christmas for about a month to get back cash. You just had to say it was a gift......

People will even buy broken things second hand to claim warranty with a retailer and get a new one.....

Even some unscrupulous dealers will buy second hand to sell as new in their shops.....

It is as old a time in the retail business........

PS: The Stetson outlet stores currently often punch holes in the sweats to prevent fraud..........and so do many other outlets modify/alter their labels.

PSPS: Last year I bought 10 brand new shirts in a Goodwill where the brand labels were cut out. Awesome deal on nice 100% cotton dress shirts....I could care less about the labels.

 

[Pkyoakum]

I cannot see anyone putting X's in their hats for personal identification....especially with gold leaf paint.

I would venture another (unpopular here on the lounge where everyone thinks their hat came direct from the factory, but logical) opinion....these hats were sold second hand by an unauthorized dealer (and possibly renovated, explaining the mismatched liner and sweat).

This is STILL done today in many, many second had stores where named brand goods have labels covered over with permanent marker (often an "X") or even cut, removed or otherwise violated to show these are not new goods and/or are seconds or even re-furbs.

Back in the day they had a LOT of second had clothes dealers......(and PROFESSIONAL renovators).

Street seller (from my collection)
View attachment 574175

Renovation shop (also from my collection).
View attachment 574176
Almost every town had second hand shops and hat renovators......as seen here:

http://[URL]https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/hatters-cleaners-and-dyers.99090/post-2613210

[/URL]

View attachment 574177
View attachment 574178

Wow, 7 3/8 was the largest they had.

 

[Pkyoakum]

Recently picked up this vintage 3" wide brim Borsalino. Couldn't find the typical white label, but there are two labels under the sweat band. Any of you experts have any idea about when it may have been made? Thanks.

 

[PanosChris]

Recently picked up this vintage 3" wide brim Borsalino. Couldn't find the typical white label, but there are two labels under the sweat band. Any of you experts have any idea about when it may have been made? Thanks.

Great misto!

 

[Johnny J]

Purchased this vintage 1930s Borsalino a couple weeks ago from Solid Goods Vintage. Thanks Justin!

 

[Johnny J]

Continued:

 

[PanosChris]

Continued:

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Amazing Gorasgu! Lovely form, shape and finish. Unsure about the age and I would have bet it to have a misto indication too. Still fantastic

 

[Blare]

Continued:

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Tremendous!

 

[steur]

Recently picked up this vintage 3" wide brim Borsalino. Couldn't find the typical white label, but there are two labels under the sweat band. Any of you experts have any idea about when it may have been made? Thanks.

It's a beautiful hat. Judging by the shape it could well be a Gorasgu model. Without the label we don't have much to go on. Looking at the liner I'd say a post-war Borsalino for the American market, likely early to mid-fifties.

 

[steur]

Continued:

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Congrats! That's gorgeous Gorasgu and in a beautiful condition too. Mont Brenva is a colour we have not seen before. The coloured labels with the separate size labels we think were made in the late thirties.

 

[Johnny J]

Amazing Gorasgu! Lovely form, shape and finish. Unsure about the age and I would have bet it to have a misto indication too. Still fantastic

Thank you Panos! I'm glad I was able to get my hands on this one!

 

[Johnny J]

Congrats, Max. That's gorgeous Gorasgu and in a beautiful condition too. Mont Brenva is a colour we have not seen before. The coloured labels with the separate size labels we think were made in the late thirties.

Thanks for the info Steur!

 

[gilligan]

Picked this Borsalino up on Ebay the other week. To my surprise, no one else was bidding on it so I got it for a song. I don't know much about Borsalino's and was wondering if anyone could shed some light on this model. Is it a non export to the US, and what year would this be. I was told 1960's. It appears to have never been worn.

 

[One Drop]

Picked this Borsalino up on Ebay the other week. To my surprise, no one else was bidding on it so I got it for a song. I don't know much about Borsalino's and was wondering if anyone could shed some light on this model. Is it a non export to the US, and what year would this be. I was told 1960's. It appears to have never been worn. View attachment 577165 View attachment 577165 View attachment 577166 View attachment 577167 View attachment 577168 View attachment 577169 View attachment 577163 View attachment 577164

Very nice, the felt looks very typically lightweight and easy to shape.

I doubt it's unworn, those sweatbands are very hard wearing and it takes a lot of use before they end up looking like that, worn but with plenty of life left.