The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD

[mayserwegener]

You may be right on the European sizing. The sweatband does say Sofia but not sure if it was actually sold in Bulgaria.

I have added some foam behind the band for now to see if I want to keep it or not.

It's English Sizing. English Size 7 1/8 = US Size 7 1/4

Europe Used CM and French Point Sizing. English Size 7 1/8 = 57cm / FP 5 1/2

 

[belfastboy]

I do watch MiamiBruno sometimes but he seems to come and go occasionally. But thanks for the tip.

He seems to post new hats every two weeks or so. Not always with Borsas but they do come up regularly for him...often in the smaller sizes.

 

[Rmccamey]

Yes. Thanks for clarifying my conversion confusion, Steve.

It's English Sizing. English Size 7 1/8 = US Size 7 1/4

Europe Used CM and French Point Sizing. English Size 7 1/8 = 57cm / FP 5 1/2

 

[mayserwegener]

Yes. Thanks for clarifying my conversion confusion, Steve.

It's interesting that it has English sizing on the individual size stamp. Not sure I have seen a Bulgarian market Borsalino with anything other than a French Point size on the main paper label or individual size stamp. Would be interesting to know if there is a size label on the sweatband.

 

[mayserwegener]

This is an interesting thread I put together on Borsalino Soft and Stiff Felt Hats with Celled Paper Labels.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/borsalinos-with-celled-paper-labels.96832/

 

[Borsalino&Co.]

Hello everybody,

a few words to introduce myself. I'm italian and I live close to Alessandria. When I was a child my sister, who is 12 years older than me, brought me to see a movie. It wasn't a movie for kids: it was Borsalino & Co. with Alain Delon. I remember I found it too violent, but I really liked the suits and the hats. I said to myself: well, one day I'll dress like that. Or at least I'll buy the hats.
As much as I love vintage Borsalino, I think that even several of their recent models happen to be great. Their colors are always the best.
I understand that this thread is about vintage models, I hope you don't mind if I post pictures of contemporary ones.

 

[steur]

My first Borsalino. Also my first bowler. In better shape than I saw from the pictures but it does need a good cleaning. Didn't really want a bowler, but the price was right.

I am a "loose" 7 1/8 and everything I have heard said Borsalinos run small, so I thought it would be perfect. Amazingly I seem to have bought the only Borsalino on the planet that runs large, fits more a 7 1/4 I think.

May pass it along but will try it out for now. Still looking for that elusive pre 1970's Borsalino fedora that won't cost me both kidneys to buy.

View attachment 559224 View attachment 559225 View attachment 559226 View attachment 559227

Welcome to the brotherhood and a good way to enter I must say. Very nice looking bowler and it's even a model (Elmoita) we haven't seen before. Nice!

 

[steur]

Hello everybody,

a few words to introduce myself. I'm italian and I live close to Alessandria. When I was a child my sister, who is 12 years older than me, brought me to see a movie. It wasn't a movie for kids: it was Borsalino & Co. with Alain Delon. I remember I found it too violent, but I really liked the suits and the hats. I said to myself: well, one day I'll dress like that. Or at least I'll buy the hats.
As much as I love vintage Borsalino, I think that even several of their recent models happen to be great. Their colors are always the best.
I understand that this thread is about vintage models, I hope you don't mind if I post pictures of contemporary ones.
View attachment 559626 View attachment 559627 View attachment 559628 View attachment 559629 View attachment 559630

Welcome to the lounge and to the brotherhood. While it is true we concentrate on the vintage hats we love so much, there's certainly room for modern hats as well.

 

[Rmccamey]

What a wonderful hat. Welcome to the Lounge. As mentioned, our focus is mostly vintage hats, but we welcome all new and custom hats too.

Hello everybody,

a few words to introduce myself. I'm italian and I live close to Alessandria. When I was a child my sister, who is 12 years older than me, brought me to see a movie. It wasn't a movie for kids: it was Borsalino & Co. with Alain Delon. I remember I found it too violent, but I really liked the suits and the hats. I said to myself: well, one day I'll dress like that. Or at least I'll buy the hats.
As much as I love vintage Borsalino, I think that even several of their recent models happen to be great. Their colors are always the best.
I understand that this thread is about vintage models, I hope you don't mind if I post pictures of contemporary ones.
View attachment 559626 View attachment 559627 View attachment 559628 View attachment 559629 View attachment 559630

 

[Mcox47]

It's interesting that it has English sizing on the individual size stamp. Not sure I have seen a Bulgarian market Borsalino with anything other than a French Point size on the main paper label or individual size stamp. Would be interesting to know if there is a size label on the sweatband.

@mayserwegener
Here is the standard size label showing 7 1/8.

 

[Borsalino&Co.]

Thanks everybody!

Here's a little less recent Lobbia:

 

[belfastboy]

Thanks everybody!

Here's a little less recent Lobbia:
View attachment 559727 View attachment 559728 View attachment 559729 View attachment 559730

How much would you pay some this hat in Italy?

 

[Rmccamey]

Here is my Borso bowler by way of Japan.

@mayserwegener
Here is the standard size label showing 7 1/8.
View attachment 559722

 

[steur]

Here is my Borso by way of Japan.

View attachment 559882 View attachment 559883 View attachment 559884 View attachment 559885

It's a beauty, Randy. Looking at the liner the flags above the coat of arms caught my eye. On the left the Italian flag with the Savoy coat of arms and on the right what looks like the historical flag of either Australia or New Zealand (I think it's the Australian one). Could well be this liner was used for the Oceania area of Borsalinos' market. The Savoy coat of arms on the Italian flag was no longer in use after 1946. Along with the label we can be fairly sure your hat is late thirties.

 

[Rmccamey]

Thank you for the update, Stefan. Based on the seller's information, I had it placed at least in the early 40s so it's good to know it may go back a few years earlier. I suppose I should consider myself lucky. This is one of those hats that must have been worn very little, stored properly and undisturbed for many years. Only a couple of spot stains on the liner, the sweatband leather is soft and subtle, all the markings are crisp, it has a wonderfully smooth hand and there are no waves or bumps in the crown...about as close to NOS as you can get without actually claiming NOS.

It's a beauty, Randy. Looking at the liner the flags above the coat of arms caught my eye. On the left the Italian flag with the Savoy coat of arms and on the right what looks like the historical flag of either Australia or New Zealand (I think it's the Australian one). Could well be this liner was used for the Oceania area of Borsalinos' market. The Savoy coat of arms on the Italian flag was no longer in use after 1946. Along with the label we can be fairly sure your hat is late thirties.

 

[mayserwegener]

@mayserwegener
Here is the standard size label showing 7 1/8.
View attachment 559722

Thanks!

 

[TheOldFashioned]

Later era Alessandria in Bismuto:

Crown	5-1/2" (open)
Brim	2-1/2" with 3/16" binding (symmetric)
Ribbon	3/8"
Weight	104g

 

[Borsalino&Co.]

How much would you pay some this hat in Italy?

I'm sorry, it was a gift, I might have an idea but I'm not sure...

 

[steur]

Talking about Borsalinos in disguise, here's an interesting one. It doesn't have any Borsalino branding anywhere and still I feel confident enough to post it here as a Borsalino.

Castorino heather in a grey brown colour called m carrubo v (carob). Size 56 with the overwelt brim at 5cm and the crown at 10cm at the center dent. It was the liner that made me buy this one. The hand of the felt is really fantastic. Shape and proportions are not entirely what I hoped for. At first I thought there was no label but it turns out there was and it's a Borsalino made hat. The misto carrubo colour is new and the label type tells us it was made in 1977.

 

[steur]

Every once in a while you stumble upon something special. I cannot thank our fellow lounger Jonathan @TheOldFashioned enough without whom this would not have happened. He was alerted to an auction of a Borsalino item and it so happened the auction house was in the Netherlands. There was only one picture, but that and the description were enough to set things in motion. Here's the picture.

Intrigueing, right? I contacted the auction house and they were very forthcoming and sent me some more pictures. Jonathan and I agreed that we needed to save this item for posterity and with his contribution I made an offer, because I could not attend the auction in person (work) and the online bidding didn't give me much confidence due to the difficulties registering. Anyway. Tuesday the hammer fell and the bid was high enough (just). Went to pick it up today.
So what is then, dang it?!
It is a march 1912 Borsalino catalog, they call it an illustrated book themselves, for the styles and colours they had on offer. So now for the good, the bad and the ugly.
The good. Well, that's obvious. It's a unique piece and it is larger in size than I expected it to be. It measures a few millimeter under 30x40cm (12x16" thereabouts). It's a miracle this thing is still around after 111 years and provides us with an insight how many styles were available at the time (all of them!).
The bad. It's not complete. There are a few pages missing from the catalog that appear to have been just torn out. Four pages seem to be missing. It's not completely in colour. Only the first few pages are in colour, it seems to give you an impression of the available colours and after that it was just about the models.
The ugly. It's not in great shape. No surprise there after all the time that went by, but this has been around the block a few times. It has some stains, foxing, tears, folds, waterdamage, you name it; it's got it.

The verdict. Despite of the condition it's in, it is well worth every penny I paid for it. There is likely no other one of these around. The auction house sure couldn't find any other examples of it and I'd imagine they have some decent resources. Guido Barberis doesn't mention it in his Borsalino books nor is there any example of an image of this catalog found elsewhere (except for the watercolour of the factory, made by Carlo Krättly in 1910). And Barberis had access to the Borsalino archives. So, it's an important piece and I'm happy as a clam.
Here are the pics (in three separate posts) I took with my phone. Have to take some real pictures or scans to document it properly for posterity. They state it is copyrighted, but I'll take my chances after 111 years.

Between these two pages the remnants of the missing pages can be seen (image below of the left hand side).