The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD

[alanfgag]

I'm still a firm supporter of the idea that the more written on the label the earlier the hat, with the separate size sticker as an intermediate solution before everything was printed or stamped on the label.

First, that old misto homburg is a stunner!

It seems that hand written notation shows up now and again, earlier and later, too... this around 1960, I believe:

 

[mayserwegener]

If it's any help, here are my examples of early labels.

Borsalino Lobbia Nebbia: codes, colour and size all written on the label.

View attachment 111843 View attachment 111844

Borsalino bowler Stregone: stamped name, but written size.

View attachment 111845 View attachment 111846


Borsalino Misto Lapis for European market: newer (?) label but with separate size sticker.

View attachment 111847 View attachment 111848

Borsalino Misto Topo for the American market: newer (?) label with written size.
View attachment 111850 View attachment 111851

I'm still a firm supporter of the idea that the more written on the label the earlier the hat, with the separate size sticker as an intermediate solution before everything was printed or stamped on the label.

Stefan, Thanks! I think there is little doubt the first two (Borsalino Lobbia Nebbia and Borsalino bowler Stregone) with the box / cell labels are at least 1930s maybe older.

 

[mayserwegener]

First, that old misto homburg is a stunner!

It seems that hand written notation shows up now and again, earlier and later, too... this around 1960, I believe:

I haven't seen an older label with the box / cell format that didn't have the size hand written. The older labels always have similar box / cell format. This type of label went away at some point.

 

[steur]

First, that old misto homburg is a stunner!

It seems that hand written notation shows up now and again, earlier and later, too... this around 1960, I believe:

Alan, thanks. True: I have a few examples of later labels with names and sizes written on them as well. Could be that by then they were the exception rather than the norm.

 

[steur]

Stefan, Thanks! I think there is little doubt the first two (Borsalino Lobbia Nebbia and Borsalino bowler Stregone) with the box / cell labels are at least 1930s maybe older.

That seems to be the case and the box format looks to be positively the older one. The interesting bit however is when the other format was introduced and wether or not there was an overlap. And just because it's Borsalino: here's an interesting one: Borsalino Faunosca with later label with both a stamped size and a separate size label (in different sizes, sjeesh).

 

[mayserwegener]

Stefan, Yes that one is definitely is a winner! I am fairly certain that the cell / box labels with hand written size are at least 1930s or older (my Berlin Echter Borsalinos are date stamped 1929).

 

[mayserwegener]

I went back in this thread and found another hat with the old box / cell label and hand written size. It's very similar in form to two of my Berlin Echter Borsalinos.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/the-borsalino-brotherhood.13133/page-2#post-203200

 

[steur]

I went back in this thread and found another hat with the old box / cell label and hand written size. It's very similar in form to two of my Berlin Echter Borsalinos.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/the-borsalino-brotherhood.13133/page-2#post-203200

The liner is similar to the one on the lobbia nebbia. There are differences however.

 

[carouselvic]

I haven't seen an older label with the box / cell format that didn't have the size hand written. The older labels always have similar box / cell format. This type of label went away at some point.

There is a dated example of the “newer” style label dated 1959.

 

[mayserwegener]

There is a dated example of the “newer” style label dated 1959.

What one does it look like?

 

[carouselvic]

What one does it look like?

i have seen a dated example dated 1959

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I have seen ops examples(exactly two)

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loads of ops examples exist

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i find these on older examples





the perforations of the first two examples differ in the way sheet stamps and coil stamps are totally different. (the paper the machine that printed them)

 

[mayserwegener]

Thanks! Sorry I was confused. I thought they had the cells/boxes with the size written like the old paper label examples I posted (see below). I am fairly certain such labels are 1930s or older.

 

[carouselvic]

Thanks! Sorry I was confused. I thought they had the cells/boxes with the size written like the old paper label examples I posted (see below). I am fairly certain such labels are 1930s or older.

No doubt they are pre-war

 

[mayserwegener]

It appears Tonio has the only American market Borsalino "Imported by George A. Place, Concord" with the old cell/box paper with the hand written size. There might be others but many photos have been lost in this thread.

What is interesting is that Borsalino had relatively large import numbers to America during the 1920s compared to others but only Tonio"s "Imported by George A. Place, Concord" find might be from that time period.

With the later paper labels it appears the German market Echter Borsalinos were more consistent date stamp wise.

 

[Tonio]

What is interesting is that Borsalino had relatively large import numbers to America during the 1920s compared to others but only Tonio"s "Imported by George A. Place, Concord" find might be from that time period.

For what it's worth, the New Hampshire Historical Society has a Knox top at sold by George A. Place. They note that he lived 1865-1941 and estimate the top hat to be 1920-1930.

Little more info on Mr. Place:

 

[mayserwegener]

Tonio, Thank you for the additional information. Based on what I can find you have the oldest American market Borsalino on the FL.

 

[Just Daniel]

A different question: has anyone seen a Super Trionfo? I've searched the forum and internet to no avail...

 

[Tonio]

Hello, thought I'd share some Borsalino artifacts I'm waiting on.

5 cards dating to the early 1900s. The lower 3 I believe may have been affixed to a hat ribbon or brim to advertise the brand.

Giuseppe Borsalino & Fratello token. Perhaps an ID of sorts? Any guesses?

 

[Redfokker]

Hello, thought I'd share some Borsalino artifacts I'm waiting on.

5 cards dating to the early 1900s. The lower 3 I believe may have been affixed to a hat ribbon or brim to advertise the brand.
View attachment 113271

Giuseppe Borsalino & Fratello token. Perhaps an ID of sorts? Any guesses?
View attachment 113272

Wow!

 

[steur]

Hello, thought I'd share some Borsalino artifacts I'm waiting on.

5 cards dating to the early 1900s. The lower 3 I believe may have been affixed to a hat ribbon or brim to advertise the brand.
View attachment 113271

Giuseppe Borsalino & Fratello token. Perhaps an ID of sorts? Any guesses?
View attachment 113272

Fantastic finds!