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The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD

TheOldFashioned

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,179
Location
The Great Lakes
Hi! New here. And to the world of hats. Picked this up for 25 cents about a year ago, was trying to research the age. Lots of different information I've scanned through on the boards, so I'm unsure.
Any idea on age or value?
It is a Borsalino Pocket Hat, Size 4 1/2.

Things I know from researching myself:
The M. Sodio is not the name of the owner, but color and fur felt type.
The hat most likely did not come with the peacock feather, but someone added it.
The 4 1/2 is not a US size..?
The serrated edge tag is between 50s-60s ?
Red paper size tag - I forgot what the info on this was besides being different from the blue one.
The gold sticker inside that reads Quality Extra Extra Superiore is the quality rating
I don't believe this was an American Market hat from the Salvatore Balbi marking, I could be wrong though.

If there's any other info, I'd love to learn it! :) View attachment 165766 View attachment 165767 View attachment 165768 View attachment 165769 View attachment 165770 View attachment 165771 View attachment 165772 View attachment 165773

Thanks in advanced!

Welcome to TFL, and kudos for taking time to read through thread(s) to try to find information! This is probably the single largest repository of hat information. While other more experienced members are generally most ready and eager to help, reading is highly encouraged and appreciated.

The "M" stands for misto, which is mixed felt or heathered. If you do a search for "sodio" you will find several other examples of this combination.

While dating a Borsalino can be somewhat challenging I think you are probably right placing this in the 60s. This is based on the serrated label without "Borsalino" included vertically on the left (which would have placed it earlier), as well as what appears to be a shorter brim width. I'm guessing it's 2" or less, though camera angle can be deceiving. Shorter brim widths are synonymous with more recent vintage hats, as this was the direction fashion was trending in the 60s and 70s.

This is indeed an Italian market hat. Salvatore Balbi Napoli (Naples) was the retail shop. You will find quite a few hats on here (and in the wild) that originated from this store. Additionally, the size 4-1/2 was used for this market and is associated with the Point sizing system. This translates to U.S. size 7.

As to value, that's somewhat difficult to assess since it's largely dependent on the taste of the individual end user. For many, vintage Borsalino's are probably considered the gold standard. Most collectors here prefer hats with larger brims, so this would affectionately be called a "stingie brim." Nothing wrong with it per se, just not as popular on the whole. That being said, others prefer these shorter brim styles.

Somewhat similarly, a heathered finished is less common but not necessarily better or worse than a non-heathered hat. (For reference, I have a heathered stingie brim pork pie style hat made by another manufacturer in my collection, but it's the only one of that type.) Also, a self-felted "ribbon" is somewhat uncommon. Again, different styles for different tastes though I personally would probably consider a heathered finish a little more casual.

As for size, back in its day it was probably average for its time. This is supported by the fact that many used hats for sale online today fall into the 6-3/4 to 7 size range. Present day average is more like 7-1/4, so if you're looking to sell you will likely have a smaller market.

This is indeed a somewhat unique hat, so if it fits wear it proud. If you're looking to sell, you are probably looking at a more niche buyer given the characteristics of the hat. That may be good thing, maybe not. What I can say is that you got a heck of a deal for 25¢!
 
Messages
19,001
Location
Central California
Hi! New here. And to the world of hats. Picked this up for 25 cents about a year ago, was trying to research the age. Lots of different information I've scanned through on the boards, so I'm unsure.
Any idea on age or value?
It is a Borsalino Pocket Hat, Size 4 1/2.

Things I know from researching myself:
The M. Sodio is not the name of the owner, but color and fur felt type.
The hat most likely did not come with the peacock feather, but someone added it.
The 4 1/2 is not a US size..?
The serrated edge tag is between 50s-60s ?
Red paper size tag - I forgot what the info on this was besides being different from the blue one.
The gold sticker inside that reads Quality Extra Extra Superiore is the quality rating
I don't believe this was an American Market hat from the Salvatore Balbi marking, I could be wrong though.

If there's any other info, I'd love to learn it! :) View attachment 165766 View attachment 165767 View attachment 165768 View attachment 165769 View attachment 165770 View attachment 165771 View attachment 165772 View attachment 165773

Thanks in advanced!

The French Point or Punti size 4 1/2 is closest to a size 7 US. The heathered felt sans liner is nice, and compared to some of the “ribbon” treatments used by Borsalino, the self felt ribbon is nice too. If you like the style and it fits, you have a nice hat.

The vintage market usually favors hats with more brim and more crown (as most here do), but all that matters is what you like. In these smaller sizes you can often find great bargains, but I doubt you’ll ever get a better deal than you did on this hat.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

FateOrFaded

New in Town
Messages
2
Thank you all for the info/replies! It is indeed a 2" brim. I found this along with a lot of other vintage hats at the time in a bin at a Salvation Army just tossed around. All the other hats were very old Kentucky Derby style womens hats. Ornate,feathered, big etc. This guy was just shoved to the bottom. I had to rescue them all just because my wife and I love vintage anything.

My wife loves small brimmed hats so she'll probably be keeping this one instead of myself. I have a big head. :)
 

Daniele Tanto

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,246
Location
Verona - Italia
The 4 1/2 is not a US size..?
No it is not a US size. It is a French way to measure hats. Since Giuseppe Borsalino made his apprentice in Berteil - Paris he tagged its hats in this way.
4 1/2 is a 56 centimeters, so a 7 in US
Here the table of hats sizes
2nhgmc5.jpg
 

Rosecitymike

One of the Regulars
Messages
185
This is my first Borsa. Posted in the What Hat... thread as well. It’s an extra extra superiore made for a shop in Basel, I’m thinking maybe 60s based on the brim and that tight rear curl. The color is a pretty interesting gray that has undertones of Olive that I think you can appreciate in this photo.

View attachment 165851
 

Rosecitymike

One of the Regulars
Messages
185
This is my first Borsa. Posted in the What Hat... thread as well. It’s an extra extra superiore made for a shop in Basel, I’m thinking maybe 60s based on the brim and that tight rear curl. The color is a pretty interesting gray that has undertones of Olive that I think you can appreciate in this photo.
A17B9C75-B90E-42F4-B739-5D484A498888.jpeg
 
Messages
18,442
Location
Nederland
This is my first Borsa. Posted in the What Hat... thread as well. It’s an extra extra superiore made for a shop in Basel, I’m thinking maybe 60s based on the brim and that tight rear curl. The color is a pretty interesting gray that has undertones of Olive that I think you can appreciate in this photo.
View attachment 165852
Welcome to the brotherhood! Nice looking hat. Can you post more pictures of it, including of the label underneath the sweatband?
 
Messages
18,442
Location
Nederland
This one came in this week. A nice addition to the collection.
Borsalino cocisan in palladio colour. Bound brim at 6,5cm and crown 10cm at the center dent. Lightweight hat at 80 grams in the quality extra extra superiore. Might have been a coffin box hat at one point. It was listed as a woman's hat, but it's not.
Only the oilskin covering of the liner is torn, but other than that it's in excellent condition.
borsalino palladio cocisan_01.jpg
borsalino palladio cocisan_02.jpg
borsalino palladio cocisan_03.jpg
borsalino palladio cocisan_04.jpg
borsalino palladio cocisan_05.jpg
borsalino palladio cocisan_06.jpg
borsalino palladio cocisan_07.jpg
borsalino palladio cocisan_08.jpg
borsalino palladio cocisan_09.jpg
borsalino palladio cocisan_11.jpg
 

Il Cappello

New in Town
What Bill said is correct. Don't know how they got the name coffin box here, but it's the name that is stuck to these gift boxes now. Meant to be taken with you as a souvenir and almost always there's a very lightweight hat inside.

Because it looks like an old pine box coffin?

d7993130b4269104c0be339dcd8e81a1.jpg


borsalino-caffe-extra_12-jpg.167235
]

This is a great color and a nice looking hat. I'm looking for one just like this. 7 1/4. Just in case anybody knows where I can find one, or in the remote chance somebody wants to part with one. ;)
 

DRB

One Too Many
Messages
1,621
Location
Florida
What Bill said is correct. Don't know how they got the name coffin box here, but it's the name that is stuck to these gift boxes now. Meant to be taken with you as a souvenir and almost always there's a very lightweight hat inside.

View attachment 167236 View attachment 167235

Considering that it's Roll Up, this hat rolled out pretty good. I never would have guessed.
 
Messages
18,442
Location
Nederland
Because it looks like an old pine box coffin?

d7993130b4269104c0be339dcd8e81a1.jpg


borsalino-caffe-extra_12-jpg.167235
]

This is a great color and a nice looking hat. I'm looking for one just like this. 7 1/4. Just in case anybody knows where I can find one, or in the remote chance somebody wants to part with one. ;)
That is indeed the reason, I think. The colour on this one is called "Caffe". Problem with getting one is that most Ebay auctions don't show the label inside the hat where that name is shown.
 
Last edited:
Messages
18,442
Location
Nederland
Considering that it's Roll Up, this hat rolled out pretty good. I never would have guessed.
The hats themselves never were meant as roll up hats, Dennis. There's a post in this thread somewhere that has a folder for the shop of Cambini of Firenze who seemed to have specialized selling these. O, might as well post the pics again. There's actually a homburg offered in this folder as a hat that could be shipped off in one of these boxes!
cambini1.JPG
cambini2.JPG
cambini3.JPG
cambini4.JPG
cambini5.JPG
cambini6.JPG
 

AbbaDatDeHat

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,850
What Bill said is correct. Don't know how they got the name coffin box here, but it's the name that is stuck to these gift boxes now. Meant to be taken with you as a souvenir and almost always there's a very lightweight hat inside.

View attachment 167236 View attachment 167235
Hey Stefan:
This one looks about a dead ringer for one i have and is Caffe as well. Extremely light weight. I’m curious if your’s has a leather sweatband? Does it have a liner?
Thanks. Bowen
 
Messages
18,442
Location
Nederland
Hey Stefan:
This one looks about a dead ringer for one i have and is Caffe as well. Extremely light weight. I’m curious if your’s has a leather sweatband? Does it have a liner?
Thanks. Bowen
It does have both a leather sweatband and a liner. Not as lightweight as others at 100 grams, but certainly not a heavyweight either. Qualita extra extra superiore. As far as I know Alan is the only one with a lightweight coffin box hat with a grosgrain sweatband.
borsalino caffe extra_07.jpg
borsalino caffe extra_08.jpg
 

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