The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD

[ScottF]

Nice one, Deputy! The fact that the OPS tag dates it to 1950-53 is instructive in terms of size tag, sweat, liner, etc. Also instructive is the price tag of $20. I have always wondered how this type of Borso was priced relative to Strats or Open Roads back in the day. Thanks for sharing the photos -- just to complete the picture, could you post a couple of shots of any embossing on the sweat (Borso logo, store, etc.)? Thanks!

Cheers,
JtL

Mario posted a Cav-edge Borso with the OPS tag and also a $20 price tag.

 

[gtdean48]

Nice one, Deputy! The fact that the OPS tag dates it to 1950-53 is instructive in terms of size tag, sweat, liner, etc. Also instructive is the price tag of $20. I have always wondered how this type of Borso was priced relative to Strats or Open Roads back in the day. Thanks for sharing the photos -- just to complete the picture, could you post a couple of shots of any embossing on the sweat (Borso logo, store, etc.)? Thanks!

Cheers,
JtL

Thanks Chief,
Here are shots of the sweatband markings...

 

[gtdean48]

Thanks guys & Lefty, I did join Special Ops, thanks for the reminder.
I'd post a noggin shot but I had a basal cell carcinoma removed this morning & not feeling too photogenic.

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

Today I took posession of this almost chocolate brown Borsalino. I bought it, along with a Stetson panama and a Pedigreed from an elderly lady who tells me it belonged to her father, who wore it in the 1930's.

I think she may be sincerely wrong on the date, but it may be 40's. See what you think.

The brim is 2 1/4" the crown is 4 1/2" creased. It has a wind trolley that matches the dark brown ribbon. The 3 Crown logo on the lining is one I have only seen once before with the only other 'SuperBorsalino' I have seen on FL. The logo is covered in what appears to be an oilskin. The size tag is blue and gold and reads 'Eulan Bayer 5 1/2' It's clearly a Punti size as it fits my 7 1/4 scone snugly but comfortably. Under the sweat was placed a length of cork, front and back, to make it fit the old chap more snugly. I've removed these.

The retailer's name on the sweat (which is lovely and supple) reads S Casiraghi Galleria Vitta EM.32 Milano.

The tag under the sweat reads:

"A2864 47949
Daino z. Bulgara 5 1/2"

So....can I join the Brotherhood??

I really gotta get me a decent camera! But where was I?

Ah yes...could one of you generous folks explain the tag to me? It reads -

"A2864 47949
Daino z. Bulgara 5 1/2"

We know the elderly lady I bought it from reckons it's her dad's hat from the 30's. It looks a little younger than that to me but could be post WWII, maybe late 40's.

Is 'Daino' the model name? What's z. Bulgara? Is 'Bulgara', Bulgaria? Bear in mind it was sold by a retailer in Milan, so Bulgaria seems a bit odd.

Is 'XXX' a quality designator or, like Stetson, does it indicate some beaver content?

Finally, does anyone know anything about the 'Super Borsalino' and when it was around?

I'll post the all important scone shot when I get home.

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

Righto! The Scone Shot

The above Borsalino Daino riding atop the noggin

 

[cookie]

The retailer's name on the sweat (which is lovely and supple) reads S Casiraghi Galleria Vitta EM.32 Milano.

I have posted previously about this famous hat shop S Casiraghi. I noted in passing that that was the same name as the deceased husband of Princess Caroline. Howevr, his family are industrialists from memory.
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=29169&page=232

Vitta EM is Vittorio Emmanuele fomer king of Italy.

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

I have posted previously about this famous hat shop S Casiraghi. I noted in passing that that was the same name as the deceased husband of Princess Caroline. Howevr, his family are industrialists from memory.
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=29169&page=232

Vitta EM is Vittorio Emmanuele fomer king of Italy.

Well now Cookie that sure is interesting. The hat in the thread you mentioned is the only other 'Super Borsalino' that I've seen. I hadn't realised that it came from the same Milan hat store as the one I have. The store is famous? Tell me more.
What I can tell you is that my Super Borsa was once owned by a John McKewan (his name's written on the liner) who was the father of the elderly lady I purchased it from. Apparently her mother was a Dr in the 30's at Columbia movie studios. As a child she met all the movie greats of the time. Maybe the lid originally belonged to one of them???? Huh???? Maybe????? Clarke Gable would have looked splendid in it!

 

[Mario]

So Mr. Tutt finds a way, yes? Would that be a way to take possession of even more vintage hats? Yes?

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

So Mr. Tutt finds a way, yes? Would that be a way to take possession of even more vintage hats? Yes?

Ah Mario....I used your inspiration to match the tie and hat today. And of course - more vintage lids are always on the shopping list. Especially if it's a 1930/40's grey widish brim, tall crown, minimum taper kinda vintage lid.

The above Borsa seems to have the experts puzzled. The Super Borsa seems kinda rare.

 

[carouselvic]

The above Borsa seems to have the experts puzzled. The Super Borsa seems kinda rare.

I am not an "expert", and have never made a claim to be. I will say I do not think a 30-40's date is any where close to correct. The Eulan tags where paper when they first appeared. They then went to a cloth Eulan tag and a size tag, two separate tags. A Eulan tag that incorporates the size as well was a much newer concept.

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

I am not an "expert", and have never made a claim to be. I will say I do not think a 30-40's date is any where close to correct. The Eulan tags where paper when they first appeared. They then went to a cloth Eulan tag and a size tag, two separate tags. A Eulan tag that incorporates the size as well was a much newer concept.

Thanks Carousel. I don't disagree with you at all. As I said in my earlier post on that hat, I think the lady who sold it to me is sincerely mistaken about its age. Like you, it is primarily the cloth Eulan/size tag that raises my caution. It looks positively modern! THere are, however, some aspects of this hat that don't look so modern - like the oilcloth over the lining and the Super Borsolino designation which, I believe, was short-lived and - as far as I can tell - not used on their export lids (hence we don't see many of them).

So in my own mind it could be anything from late 40's to 60's. Let's compromise and call it a 50's Borso. It's probably close to that. In the meantime I'll try and find out if the seller can recall her parents visiting Italy where the hat was sold.

 

[Lefty]

How is that dating? Aside from the oilskin, you're just guessing.

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

How is that dating? Aside from the oilskin, you're just guessing.

Yep Lefty. Guilty as charged. I thought I made it clear that I'm guessing.

 

[billysmom]

Roll-up Borsalino

It came in its box from eBay:

Paper tag, taped seam on the sweat:

From a shop in Florence:

Liner:

Borsalino stamp on sweat:

Corrugations:

All the features of my other Borsalinos, but packable!

And the collection grows .......

Sue

 

[Aureliano]

Congrats Sue!:eusa_clap
I've been looking like mad for one of those since I saw Gene's.
How do you search on Ebay for something like that. Do you mind sharing?

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

It came in its box from eBay:

Paper tag, taped seam on the sweat:

From a shop in Florence:

Liner:

Borsalino stamp on sweat:

Corrugations:

All the features of my other Borsalinos, but packable!

And the collection grows .......

Sue

Sue, you're leading me into temptation!

Superb! As always.

 

[billysmom]

Borsalino Binge

I seem to have been on a Borsalino binge lately. Here's my ladies' velour:

Very soft, could easily be stuffed into a large purse. I'm really going to get some mileage from this one

Sue

​

 

[billysmom]

Borsoalino Binge, cont.

This one came with an enormous box - certainly big enough for more than one hat!

The felt's wonderfully soft, yet substantial. 2 1/2" brim, 5 1/2" uncreased crown. Noggin shot to come. This one's really special!

Sue

 

[mayserwegener]

I seem to have been on a Borsalino binge lately. Here's my ladies' velour:

Very soft, could easily be stuffed into a large purse. I'm really going to get some mileage from this one

Sue

​

As stated on the other thread for me this one really stands out. Velours are cool!

 

[billysmom]

As stated on the other thread for me this one really stands out. Velours are cool!

You're so right, mayserwegener. They just make you feel good! I forgot to mention that this one has a fore-and-aft dimensional brim: 1 7/8" in fromt and 2 3/8 in back.

Sue