The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD

[mayserwegener]

In that case the hat was manufactured in 1969 (just like me! ), which correlates to another, handwritten label I just now found hidden behind the liner. The first few digits are hardly legible, but it reads something like xx/xx/69, so I take this to be the date of manufacture.

BTW: I really wouldn't mind finding one like this with a wider (say, 2 3/4") brim...

The year should be first two digits so need those for dating.

 

[Dinerman]

The borsalino serial number dating code only works on modern hats with the computer printed tags.

 

[ScottF]

Many similarities to the 1930's-early 1940's. Most of the Bulgarian Zlateff hats have the number beginning 38---. I might speculate that yours is just a bit earlier in production date. So, if you buy my theory of the pre-War origin putting those hats probably 1940-41 production, than yours might be the end of the 1930's. Just a educated(maybe) guess.

Thanks rlk. I'm surprised at the early dates given by you and Dreispitz, but primarily because the hat looks brand new. I would think it would show some age just from sitting around that long. I have a Zlateff 'cellophane' Borso arriving any day now, so looking forward to comparing the two.

Here are pics of the tag:

 

[Mario]

The borsalino serial number dating code only works on modern hats with the computer printed tags.

Then the tag in my hat doesn't apply. It looks more like the one ScottF posted above, only that mine is more yellowed. Still, there is that other, handwritten label which says something like xx/23/69 (it's very hard to see, and I can't really photograph it, as it is fairly high above the stitches on the liner).

When did Borsalino start using black sweats? And the English translation 'Original House'?

 

[mayserwegener]

Then the tag in my hat doesn't apply. It looks more like the one ScottF posted above, only that mine is more yellowed. Still, there is that other, handwritten label which says something like xx/23/69 (it's very hard to see, and I can't really photograph it, as it is fairly high above the stitches on the liner).

When did Borsalino start using black sweats? And the English translation 'Original House'?

Then it isn't one of the later ones. Looking again at the sweat it does look earlier. It is more the style vs. the color. My guess would be 60s.

 

[rlk]

Thanks rlk. I'm surprised at the early dates given by you and Dreispitz, but primarily because the hat looks brand new. I would think it would show some age just from sitting around that long. I have a Zlateff 'cellophane' Borso arriving any day now, so looking forward to comparing the two.

Here are pics of the tag:

OK, your stamp does look later without the script Borsalino on the left edge and the blue ink size. More modern reed cloth too. Maybe late 1950's then.
I made a stupid assumption that it was the same type of stamp as the earlier hats. My apologies.
This hat is 1959 give or take a few years and sold in Italy.

 

[ScottF]

OK, your stamp does look later without the script Borsalino on the left edge and the blue ink size. More modern reed cloth too. Maybe late 1950's then.
I made a stupid assumption that it was the same type of stamp as the earlier hats. My apologies.

That sounds more in line with its appearance, but nothing stupid about your assumptions - it DOES look like a '30s or '40s hat; in fact, I bought it thinking that's what I was getting.

Also, if I remember correctly - there have been a few hats with similar tags to mine, posted as '40s hats.

 

[rlk]

That sounds more in line with its appearance, but nothing stupid about your assumptions - it DOES look like a '30s or '40s hat; in fact, I bought it thinking that's what I was getting.

Also, if I remember correctly - there have been a few hats with similar tags to mine, posted as '40s hats.

I was hoping to accumulate data on the stamps accompanied by hats that could be accurately dated(not by visual style suppositions), as there are definite periods for their use, since the number codes have proven too cryptic on the pre 1975 hats. I made the vague suggestion earlier in this thread but had no response.

IF YOU HAVE A PRE-1975 BORSALINO YOU CAN POSITIVELY DATE PLEASE SEND A PHOTO OF YOUR STAMP AND GENERAL VIEW OF THE HAT. EITHER TO THIS THREAD OR A NEW ONE OR PM ME, WHATEVER IS BEST. I THINK WE WILL BE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT DATE RANGES--POSSIBLY EVEN THE NUMBER SYSTEM IF THERE IS A LARGE ENOUGH SAMPLE. LINERS AND SWEATBANDS ARE JUST TOO VARIABLE FOR BORSALINO. HEY, ITS WORTH A TRY.

 

[Lefty]

The OPS tag dates this one.

 

[rlk]

Thank you Lefty, I'll try to sort them out. Do we need a separate thread?

 

[Lefty]

If you want to start a thread on dating pre-1975 borsos by tag, go for it. It seems like a pretty worthwhile endeavor to me - along the lines of the Stetson crest, liner, and quality threads.

 

[ScottF]

If you want to start a thread on dating pre-1975 borsos by tag, go for it. It seems like a pretty worthwhile endeavor to me - along the lines of the Stetson crest, liner, and quality threads.

I also wonder about the 'names' below the numbers - some of them look Eastern European in my opinion. Here's another one that has 'Gorasgu' on the label:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showpost.php?p=402217&postcount=1

 

[rlk]

I also wonder about the 'names' below the numbers - some of them look Eastern European in my opinion. Here's another one that has 'Gorasgu' on the label:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showpost.php?p=402217&postcount=1

That one is a mystery the other two are felt color(Ice) and ribbon color(Black). Note the black on black hat only says Nero.

 

[Aureliano]

Can the "grand prix Paris 1900" give an idea of a hat's age?

 

[gtdean48]

Can the "grand prix Paris 1900" give an idea of a hat's age?

It is written on my Alessandria that I bought in the mid 1980's.

 

[rlk]

Can the "grand prix Paris 1900" give an idea of a hat's age?

The hat was made after 1900. Seems a whole lot of companies won something at that exposition and kept putting it on their hats for a long time, not just Borsalino.

 

[Mario]

A few days ago I decided to give my cream colored Borso a new crease. The diamond looked great, but I wanted longer, deeper side pinches and found they work better with a center dent. Of course this introduced some taper to the sides, but it also left me with a nice reverse taper on the front and back as well.

On the left is the old bash with the diamond, on the right the new center dent crease.

 

[ScottF]

Mario - that's a beauty - I had a really floppy one almost exactly like it. Also, all of my Borsalinos but one have fit about one size smaller than tagged, exception being a newer one.

I have another one similar to yours that I sent to Optimo - being a 'high rider' as you say, it ended up looking just fine with Optimo's 'gangster' crease, and I have been wearing it as-is. You might try that. Also, a little steam helped it lose some of the floppiness and retain shape.

I like it a lot better with the new crease. Borsalinos are very finicky and I really believe that the crown shape was designed to look best with certain creases in mind. The style you have looks great with a very basic minimal crease - it brings out the lines.

I've been trying for months to make my brown one work with a snapped brim and side dents, but finally gave up and now wear it like a Homburg. I'm convinced that's what the hatter had in mind.

 

[billysmom]

Very nice, Mario. Adds a bit more drama and swagger.

Sue

 

[ScottF]

Very nice, Mario. Adds a bit more drama and swagger.

Sue

Have we seen a pic of Mario wearing this hat? This is an awesome hat that really deserves a head beneath it.